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  1. #1
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fox river pwc's Avatar
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    Forums versus Facebook

    I got into this sport about a decade before the internet was even a thing and about 15 years prior to the forums taking off. Most of what I learned in those early years came from firsthand experience, actual phone calls, reading magazines, and face-to-face time with lots of buddies - most of whom were older than me. I bought dozens of jet skis in the 90s by voraciously reading the classified ads in several newspapers, most with zero pictures, then calling and making the drive with cash in my pocket. I learned as I went along. It took time, effort, and patience....but I grew up back when the world still had patience, lol.

    Anyhow, so I may have missed the dawn (mid 70s - late 80s, pre SJ) era of this sport, but I've been keenly involved in the last 3 eras = the 90s hayday (pre-internet), the forum era (roughly early 2000s - early 20teens), and now the FB era (about a decade old now).

    There have been good and bad aspects to all these eras, and I'm not really (not at all, frankly) interested in debating which is best, cuz I really don't GAF what others think at this point, lol, but I do want to share my observations, just cuz I feel like it, and the world today now greatly values feelings, right??

    Anyhow, this "analogy" hit me a day or two ago, so I wrote it out to see how it would look on "paper". (Do we still use paper?)

    Imagine you're a librarian, except you work for free.

    For a few years, customers come in with questions, you direct them to the section they need, they go find the books they need, and they read them to get the info they desire. With a minimal amount of guidance, they manage to teach themselves something valuable, and the world is a better place for it .

    After a few years, customers get more demanding and lazy. When directed to the section they need, they resist and demand that you go figure out what book they need and expect you to bring it to them. Kinda like, "got a link?".

    Time goes on, and customers' demands grow deeper. Instead of you handing them the book they need, they want you to read it for them (not even TO them, but FOR them), so you can gain the knowledge necessary to answer their questions. You proceed to meet these demands.

    More time goes by, and you've memorized all the books in your library, but your customers as a whole have only become dumber and dumber and dumber. You realize that 300 different customers come into your library each day, but between all of them, you hear the same 3 basic questions from them, day after day after day....but they're at least halfway decent questions, and you've already memorized the answers, so you proceed with answering them.

    Now even more time has gone by, but not very much time, as you notice rather quickly that now even the quality of the questions being asked by your customers has diminished greatly. In fact, your customers are now so God-awful stupid that they can't even formulate a decent question anymore. You are now inundated with worthlessly vague questions like, "Is this any good?" and "What size is best?".....the questions being asked literally demonstrate the customer has the critical thinking ability of a traffic cone, so you realize the new best answer to every single question is now "ODI Rogues".

    Welcome to providing tech support on FB. I quit, lol. See y'all back at dem derr forums N sh1t...where the potential for learning something may not be guaranteed, but is at least possible. #OldSchoolRules
    Last edited by fox river pwc; 02-01-2022 at 11:35 AM.


    WHEN IN DOUBT, GAS IT!

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  2. #2
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    Your thoughts apply to many more situations that just Jet Skis, FB, and Forums. I retired from teaching after 35s year, 1974-2009. The changes in students and parents during that time is VERY TROUBLING. It has gotten much worse in the last 10 years.

    I do not want to suggest that everyone fits that description, there are MANY intelligent, hard working people. They are just getting to be less and less common.

    Very Scary!!!!
    2, 1998 TS 770 L, restored and running great as of July 2019 (NO THANKS to the person at SBT, who put the WRONG crankshaft bearing into the rebuilt engine I got from them)

  3. #3
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fox river pwc's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    Quote Originally Posted by hemmjo View Post
    Your thoughts apply to many more situations that just Jet Skis, FB, and Forums. I retired from teaching after 35s year, 1974-2009. The changes in students and parents during that time is VERY TROUBLING. It has gotten much worse in the last 10 years.

    I do not want to suggest that everyone fits that description, there are MANY intelligent, hard working people. They are just getting to be less and less common.

    Very Scary!!!!
    Agreed absolutely.
    Part of why I got out of running a small business 9 years ago and took a desk job was to eliminate the headaches that came with "staffing".

    And yes, these stereotypes do not apply to ALL. I have plenty of younger riding pals who absolutely thrive in the workplace today, for good and obvious reasons.

    The way we teach and learn today is very different than it was when I was a kid. Maybe the key is we need more nuns verbally and physically abusing kids.....lol......it worked for me


    WHEN IN DOUBT, GAS IT!

    Yeah, I'm an @sshole, but I'm not a complete @sshole.

    http://badgerlandjetpilots.com/

    I don't come here to make enemies - only to identify them...

  4. #4
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fox river pwc's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    From a purely functional standpoint, one key difference I see is that the forums are much more like a library, where information can be reasonably saved and accessed later on...for years. With FB, it's basically a black hole after it falls off everyone's feed in a few hours...the searchability just isn't as compatible with learning and archiving, so good (and bad) info is lost, which only compounds the tendency for users to just keep asking the same questions over and over - as they have been trained to rely on total strangers for info on demand. To be clear, yes, forums are populated by strangers as well, but the formats of forums make it much more possible to at least determine which strangers know WTF they are talking about.


    WHEN IN DOUBT, GAS IT!

    Yeah, I'm an @sshole, but I'm not a complete @sshole.

    http://badgerlandjetpilots.com/

    I don't come here to make enemies - only to identify them...

  5. #5
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Bionic racing's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    Good comparisons , I don’t and never will Facebook , as I tell customers I can fix your jet ski but I can’t fix stupid , as the same ski comes in three times for another rocked wearing replacement , stop being the hero and letting boneheads ride your equipment that can not afford their own equipment

  6. #6
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    Quote Originally Posted by fox river pwc View Post
    From a purely functional standpoint, one key difference I see is that the forums are much more like a library, where information can be reasonably saved and accessed later on...for years. With FB, it's basically a black hole after it falls off everyone's feed in a few hours...the searchability just isn't as compatible with learning and archiving, so good (and bad) info is lost, which only compounds the tendency for users to just keep asking the same questions over and over - as they have been trained to rely on total strangers for info on demand. To be clear, yes, forums are populated by strangers as well, but the formats of forums make it much more possible to at least determine which strangers know WTF they are talking about.
    THIS!!! This is so spot on it drives me crazy. Forums are SO much superior to Facebook for information because of the archiving aspect of it. You can go back and look at old posts and find all kinds of info.

    There is also kind of a different dynamic about posting that I think is important. People posting on forums about their projects it's a thing that is going to be seen by interested people and around for a while so they tend to put more and better information and some effort into making it presentable and readable.

  7. #7
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fox river pwc's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    Quote Originally Posted by Storbeck View Post
    THIS!!! This is so spot on it drives me crazy. Forums are SO much superior to Facebook for information because of the archiving aspect of it. You can go back and look at old posts and find all kinds of info.

    There is also kind of a different dynamic about posting that I think is important. People posting on forums about their projects it's a thing that is going to be seen by interested people and around for a while so they tend to put more and better information and some effort into making it presentable and readable.
    Yup.

    I was building a ski maybe 4 or 5 years ago.
    I needed a specific detail about something that I knew I knew, but just couldn't remember.
    So I finally broke down and googled my question.
    Ready for this?
    So the very first result of my google search was a thread on pwctoday, authored by ME about 10 years earlier. It had the exact info I needed.

    Some people google themselves on purpose.
    I did it accidentally.


    WHEN IN DOUBT, GAS IT!

    Yeah, I'm an @sshole, but I'm not a complete @sshole.

    http://badgerlandjetpilots.com/

    I don't come here to make enemies - only to identify them...

  8. #8
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home SxiPro's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    FB is a sh1tshow. Period.
    Changes aren't permanent, but change is.

  9. #9
    Frequent Poster ZacFlyer's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    Agreed with all stated above, and not to mention that when you enter the FakeBook realm, you are in your own little world. Your house. One feels as though they should get what they want and this person certainly feels entitled to it due to being in a selfish environment.

    And again as stated in the library you are in someone else environment, an area of respect and where you are expected to be independent.
    Last edited by ZacFlyer; 02-02-2022 at 03:46 PM.
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  10. #10
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fox river pwc's Avatar
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    Re: Forums versus Facebook

    You can lead others to knowledge, but you can't make them login to be able to see the pictures, lololol

    Screenshot_20220310-114224_Gallery.jpg


    WHEN IN DOUBT, GAS IT!

    Yeah, I'm an @sshole, but I'm not a complete @sshole.

    http://badgerlandjetpilots.com/

    I don't come here to make enemies - only to identify them...

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