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Check out this cylinder failure. 720

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  • anesthes
    PWCToday Newbie
    • Jun 2007
    • 38

    Check out this cylinder failure. 720

    What do you think caused this? Oil injection failure? Damage is only on the carb side.

    Click image for larger version

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  • Myself
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
    • Jun 2006
    • 7767

    #2
    Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

    Lower rod bearing looks good, no discoloration. lack of oil for sure but maybe from water washing the cylinder down?
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

    Comment

    • anesthes
      PWCToday Newbie
      • Jun 2007
      • 38

      #3
      Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

      No evidence of water anywhere.

      Don't really understand what happened..

      Comment

      • SpitAndDirt
        Resident Guru
        • Dec 2006
        • 1070

        #4
        Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

        I would remove the entire oil pump and RV cover assembly and test it for the proper number of drips using a drill. The oil pump may be good, but you could have a clogged/blocked oil injection check valve. On the 720, the oil pump has two check valves, one for each injection line, respectively. The check valves can be unbolted from the pump and cleaned using gumout and low pressure compressed air, but due to age, it might just be a better choice to replace both at the same time during your rebuild.

        CHECK VALVE (OIL PUMP BANJO FITTING) (OLD P/N 290956010)


        This also assumes your internal carburetor micro fuel filters are clean and that the cylinder didn't turn out this way because of a lean running condition.
        "The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed."

        -Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

        Rides: 2 x 96XP // 99XPL // 02RX Currently rebuilding
        I love my CanDooPro! Take that stealerships!! www.candoopro.com

        Comment

        • anesthes
          PWCToday Newbie
          • Jun 2007
          • 38

          #5
          Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

          Originally posted by SpitAndDirt View Post
          I would remove the entire oil pump and RV cover assembly and test it for the proper number of drips using a drill. The oil pump may be good, but you could have a clogged/blocked oil injection check valve. On the 720, the oil pump has two check valves, one for each injection line, respectively. The check valves can be unbolted from the pump and cleaned using gumout and low pressure compressed air, but due to age, it might just be a better choice to replace both at the same time during your rebuild.

          CHECK VALVE (OIL PUMP BANJO FITTING) (OLD P/N 290956010)


          This also assumes your internal carburetor micro fuel filters are clean and that the cylinder didn't turn out this way because of a lean running condition.
          Well.. Hrmm.. I have a single carb, that I sent out to a forum member to rebuild. I'd assume it was set up properly and not running lean.

          I'll inspect the lines and check valves. Thank you.

          -- Joe

          Comment

          • Grumpy Old Guy
            • Dec 2003
            • 26167

            #6
            Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

            Motor was tired & due to fail.

            Carb was rebuilt properly.
            sigpic

            Comment

            • Myself
              PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
              • Jun 2006
              • 7767

              #7
              Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

              Let's see the exhaust side and piston top. Too lean will ALWAYS burn the exhaust side of the piston or piston top first.
              http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

              '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
              +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

              '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
              ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

              '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
              light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

              Comment

              • anesthes
                PWCToday Newbie
                • Jun 2007
                • 38

                #8
                Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                I will have to take some more pictures tomorrow, but the exhaust side is perfectly fine.

                I was thinking about this earlier, you would think that the bearings would have failed before the piston did from lack of lubrication, no?

                Comment

                • Grumpy Old Guy
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 26167

                  #9
                  Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                  Piston will fail first from lack of lubrication.
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • anesthes
                    PWCToday Newbie
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 38

                    #10
                    Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                    Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy View Post
                    Piston will fail first from lack of lubrication.
                    That's my assumption, other cylinder is fine. I think I messed up when I disconnected the oil pump and didn't bleed it. maybe. I don't know.

                    The engine only had 80 hours on it, which is why I put it in the boat (from a crashed ski). Compression was perfect before it blew up. I just want to make sure I resolve the lubrication issue.

                    -- Joe

                    Comment

                    • anesthes
                      PWCToday Newbie
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 38

                      #11
                      Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                      So. I checked the oil lines, and they have oil in them, the squirter appears to have oil. So now I'm not sure that it's lubrication after all.

                      The other piston has absolutely no signs of any damage or issues.

                      Here is some pictures of the exhaust side of this piston - as you can see there is SOME damage, but it's quite minimal compared to the RV side.

                      Also the piston top, the cylinder, and the plugs.

                      Sleeve might have had a crack in it, or maybe it was a crack from pounding it out. Sending the cylinder next door tomorrow to get bored and honed to size. I don't want to put this back together until I know for certain why it blew up.

                      -- JoeClick image for larger version

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                      Comment

                      • Grumpy Old Guy
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 26167

                        #12
                        Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                        You need to bore both cyls the same.

                        You should have bled the oil pump a air pocket in the oil pump will cause what you have.With that said I would also premix the next tank of gas after you drain it completly & start with fresh fuel. I do that carb mod/rebuild to a ton of skis/jetboats & have no issues whatsoever. If you wanna send it back I will be happy to check it out no charge.
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • anesthes
                          PWCToday Newbie
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 38

                          #13
                          Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                          Originally posted by Grumpy Old Guy View Post
                          You need to bore both cyls the same.

                          You should have bled the oil pump a air pocket in the oil pump will cause what you have.With that said I would also premix the next tank of gas after you drain it completly & start with fresh fuel. I do that carb mod/rebuild to a ton of skis/jetboats & have no issues whatsoever. If you wanna send it back I will be happy to check it out no charge.
                          I don't think there is any issues with the carb.. I'd expect both cylinders to be lean.

                          One thing I cannot explain though, when I first got this on the water it kept dying after like 45 seconds to a minute of throttle. It would immediately restart. It did this over and over and over again. I drained all the fuel, new fuel, bypassed the shutoff valve and ran new lines to the reserve side of the sender and tried it on the water again and it did this over and over again.

                          The ONLY thing I did after that was change the short tubing for the fuel pulse line. Went back on the lake, and it ran perfect. ran it headway speed for about 10 minutes, then brought it up on plain and ran about 3/4 throttle for another 5 or so minutes and it just died. Never started again.

                          Anyhow, I put a new sleeve in the cylinder and I'm having the machine shop bore it to factory specs to match the other cylinder on the final hone.

                          So you think that an air bubble from when I disconnected the line to the squirter for that cylinder caused this? Or perhaps an air buble in the main line? I had the main oil feed line disconnected of course, the motor was sitting on my bench for a year or so before I put it in the boat.

                          I spoke to one of the techs at the Seadoo dealer down the street, and showed him the pictures. He doesn't think it was a lubrication issue, but rather he thinks the crank seal for that cylinder failed and it was a lean condition. While I do see a minor difference in the plug, It doesn't look like it was that lean. Does it?

                          I don't do much with the 2 strokes. I built a ton of 4 stroke engines. I got out of this seadoo stuff for a lot of years and got back into it recently. Starting to regret it haha.

                          -- Joe

                          Comment

                          • anesthes
                            PWCToday Newbie
                            • Jun 2007
                            • 38

                            #14
                            Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                            Started the re-assembly with new parts. So I'm going to put the top end together, and I'm making some block off plates for the carb and exhaust. My plan is to pressurize and then vacuum test the crankcase to check the crank seals for air leaks. If that checks out, I guess we have to assume it was a lubrication failure.

                            I'll also drill / drip test the oil pump.

                            Then I guess we'll see how it goes with a full tank of premix.

                            -- Joe

                            Comment

                            • anesthes
                              PWCToday Newbie
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 38

                              #15
                              Re: Check out this cylinder failure. 720

                              Top end is back together. I need to make a block off plate for the carb and exhaust so I can do a pressure / vac test of the crank case.

                              Looks like I have to remove the entire RV cover then separate the intake from it to test the injection pump??

                              -- Joe

                              Comment

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