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  1. #11
    PWCToday Regular Gebular's Avatar
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seadoo timebomb View Post
    If bearings are not all pitted and trashed out, you may get lucky. The front seal is not what caused it to dry out. That bolt missing did as you concluded. Bolt the cone back on and use silicone around the oring. Loctite the bolts. If front seal is now dead from loss of oil, it will be dripping out after a short ride. If oil level is still good, you might have dodged a bullet. If bearings dont look good, you can get a complete aftermarket rebuild kit for decent price. Not hard to change out parts. If bearings are not junk, putting a new front seal on is a good idea. If you need new parts, make sure to determine if it still has original pump or a newer one. Make sure you replace with a double lip seal and install spring inside facing cavity. In 2000 the seal had only a single lip and was reversed. They didnt last very long. There are several oem part numbers for that seal, but fit all of the older model pumps thru the 951 motors.

    Usually when they dry out, the thrust bearing will denigrate and thrust bearing surface on shaft will mushroom really bad from overheating. Normally kills the whole pump assembly. The 98 pump is a unicorn, if still has the original. If bad, replace it with a 99 and newer, using the big rubber oring around wear ring to seal at ride shoe. If using a newer pump, remove the spacer washers that are behind pump on thru hull studs. With newer sealing oring you wont need to silicone the pump to shoe anymore.
    Thank you very much for all the good info. I still haven’t got out for a short test ride but hoping to this week. Does this pump require a press to take apart? Wondering if I shouldn’t just plan on replacing seal and thrust bearing anyways. I have no idea when it was last done. I just got the impeller tool in the mail. I have a new thrust bearing and a double lip front seal in my parts bin
    "When Life is Passing You By, Downshift"

  2. #12
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    The shaft will slide right out of housing after removing impeller. With cone removed clamp the shaft in vise on the two flats. Then unscrew using a 1/2" break over bar with cheater. I have seen several of the shafts gaul up on threads and tearing up when removing impeller. Sometimes you can chase the threads on impeller and reuse, but shaft is not so lucky. Seal can be pryed out with screwdriver. Just dont damage the housing doing it. Check to make sure you have a 1998 only pump. It will have bronze center section and no sealing oring on outer diameter of wear ring. The wear ring will be sitting about flush with housing of pump. Newer pumps have wear ring sticking out about 1/4". There are also four large stepped spacers behind pump on 10mm thru hull mounting studs. The four mounting bosses on corners of pump housing that bolt against ride shoe are stepped where large SS washers fit. Then make sure thrust bearing is identical if you change out. They have different size rollers and not the same thickness. When reinstalling make sure the thrust bearing and washer are sitting down in recess. Has a tendency of getting off centered and jamming on edge of housing. Roller bearings need a press to change out with a correct diameter slug to not damage anything. Do NOT beat them in/out with a hammer. You have to push each roller bearing out from other side. A thick washer with two flats ground on edges will slip inside between the rollers and rotate flat, sitting on top. Then with an extended shaft you push out from other side. Again do not hammer the old ones out. It usually leaves nicks and high spots on bore of housing. Then new bearing will not fit properly and have premature failure.



    You can also use a piece of allthread and draw the bearings in from either side. Just have to make sure they are going in perfectly straight. You will need to fab some slugs to fit diameter of bearing jackets. Ideally a deep socket that is just barely smaller than diameter of needle bearing. Follow the shop manual as to how deep they need to be. Its not exact, but they do sit recessed below flush. You can measure the old ones for approximate depth too. I machined slugs that fit inside of bearing and stepped to push on outer edge and stepped again to stop at correct depth.

    The thrust bearing is all that takes any load in pump. It is more critical to not be all pitted and rusted after you clean it up. The roller bearings will be good if they rotate freely with your fingers. They will all be discolored, grey to black, but NOT blue in color. If there are some tiny spots on thrust washer, usually will not cause any problems. You can sand it to make sure is still flat on a piece of glass plate and 320 or finer wet/dry sandpaper. Its the grey colored paper, not orange. You can also flip washer over and use the clean side too.

    I have remachined damaged pump shafts with great success after the thrust bearing has failed. The flared out end where thrust bearing rides can be machined back same thickness as a thrust washer. Then you use a thrust washer on both sides of bearing. I have also repaired the housings by resleeving the bearing pockets when that much damage has occurred. This is before aftermarket parts were available and affordable.
    Last edited by Seadoo timebomb; 06-09-2018 at 03:33 PM.

  3. #13
    PWCToday Regular Gebular's Avatar
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seadoo timebomb View Post
    The shaft will slide right out of housing after removing impeller. With cone removed clamp the shaft in vise on the two flats. Then unscrew using a 1/2" break over bar with cheater. I have seen several of the shafts gaul up on threads and tearing up when removing impeller. Sometimes you can chase the threads on impeller and reuse, but shaft is not so lucky. Seal can be pryed out with screwdriver. Just dont damage the housing doing it. If you have a 1998 only pump make sure thrust bearing is identical if you change out. They have different size rollers and not the same thickness. When reinstalling make sure the thrust bearing and washer are sitting down in recess. Has a tendency of getting off centered and jamming on edge of housing. Roller bearings need a press to change out with a correct diameter slug to not damage anything. Do NOT beat them in/out with a hammer. You have to push each roller bearing out from other side. A thick washer with two flats ground on edges will slip inside between the rollers and rotate flat, sitting on top. Then with an extended shaft you push out from other side. Again do not hammer the old ones out. It usually leaves nicks and high spots on bore of housing. Then new bearing will not fit properly and have premature failure.

    You can also use a piece of allthread and draw the bearings in from either side. Just have to make sure they are going in perfectly straight. You will need to fab some slugs to fit diameter of bearing jackets. Ideally a deep socket that is just barely smaller than diameter of needle bearing. Follow the shop manual as to how deep they need to be. Its not exact, but they do sit recessed below flush. You can measure the old ones for approximate depth too. I machined slugs that fit inside of bearing and stepped to push on outer edge and stepped again to stop at correct depth.

    The thrust bearing is all that takes any load in pump. It is more critical to not be all pitted and rusted after you clean it up. The roller bearings will be good if they rotate freely with your fingers. They will all be discolored, grey to black, but NOT blue in color. If there are some tiny spots on thrust washer, usually will not cause any problems. You can sand it to make sure is still flat on a piece of glass plate and 320 or finer wet/dry sandpaper. Its the grey colored paper, not orange.
    Wow a lot of great info. I sure appreciate you and everyone else on this site. You’ve all walked me through a lot of things I was lost on. I’ll report back what the outcome is in the end for anyone else that may run into the same situation.
    "When Life is Passing You By, Downshift"

  4. #14
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    First update. Took it for a short 2-3 minute ride. Everything worked excellent but got home and I could see milky oil coming out of the cone bolt hole. Drained it and today I’m going to take the pump out and partially tear it down for inspection. I used a new cone seal and locktited the bolts. Is it water pressure from the front of the pump that pushed the oil out or is there something wrong with the cone? Anyways, I’ll report back soon. Woke up this morning and the well pump to my house is down so first things first. Pump woes over here lmao!
    "When Life is Passing You By, Downshift"

  5. #15
    Resident Guru hafweigthr's Avatar
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    You can also check this by doing a pressure test after assembly. If you have a pop off tester that can be adapted to fit the threads on the cone oil fill set screw. Pump it up to 5 psi or so and watch.
    I always inspect the thrust bearing before committing to reusing it. You can get a set of Lopes as Harbor Freight (2X to 10X magnifiers) that work well for this. They are good for anything you want to inspect closely.

    Scotch brite works real well for eliminating some surface imperfections on the pump shafts etc. without damaging or abrading material.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    I found a simple tool to remove the bearings in 140 pumps, I was making a motor line up tool from an old pump and found that a spring loaded closet rod was the perfect size for the id on the bearings, took that one step further and use the small id rod as the guide and the larger rod as the pusher ,works for me

  7. #17
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    Thanks guys for the advice. I will definitely adapt my pop off tester to test pressure when I’m done. Don’t want a repeat of this. Didn’t get done with my well pump til 11pm last night but we have running water today so I can move on to the xp pump.
    "When Life is Passing You By, Downshift"

  8. #18
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    Let’s see if I can post some pics
    The oil
    1D57CC1C-5697-4C8C-A8C8-9D17A95E596F.jpeg
    Bronze veins are chipped and it only had the single lip seal
    62834524-6035-4527-AF38-6E55146FE325.jpeg
    Shaft looks burnt but have another. My thrust bearing is wrong one but I do have new double lip seal
    E347B437-9289-4698-B4A0-00FBACCD7CAE.jpeg
    Also the neoprene seal has been pinched and folded all these years and I didn’t even know. I’ve never had this pump off. And there’s more! The wear ring was crooked. I straightened it out but now I’m worried the impeller has uneven wear along with the wear ring. Might not have right clearances when I put it back together. Anyways, that’s where I’m at. How bad is it that the veins are chipped? I might do a quick fix with extra parts I have and new double lips seal to get me by until I order a whole new assembly or a complete rebuild kit
    "When Life is Passing You By, Downshift"

  9. #19
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    I knew that would happen, it's the front seal.......especially when they're in backwards like that. I think a couple years they were like that from the factory. Spring to the inside. A craftsman good at brazing can fix up that pump for you. Those shafts will clean up just fine with a red rotoloc disc on the die grinder.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Xp limited. No oil in pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myself View Post
    I knew that would happen, it's the front seal.......especially when they're in backwards like that. I think a couple years they were like that from the factory. Spring to the inside. A craftsman good at brazing can fix up that pump for you. Those shafts will clean up just fine with a red rotoloc disc on the die grinder.
    Thanks. I’ll install the new seal the right way. Also, I dug a little deeper and found a new pump shaft and a new thrust washer. Still wasn’t able to find the correct thrust bearing but the old one in my opinion seems alright for now.
    "When Life is Passing You By, Downshift"

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