pxctoday

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» Find OEM Parts

» Jobs

» wallpapers

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Any warranty special exceptions

    I have worked retail and wholesale management for the last 22 years. I understand thoroughly the way a written warranty works. I also understand when certain exceptions must be made under certain circumstances. Last February I installed an engine under warranty for a customer. It was handled by me AFTER the first shop tried and failed the first go around. I found and repaired creased fuel pump diaphragms as well as cleaned crud out of the fuel tank. We had severe flooding last spring which closed all campgrounds and put most boat launches underwater through July. Customer brings ski to me the last week of August, will barely run. Was great, then just bogged out and they limped back to the dock. I pulled the head, saw some damage to front piston, and told customer it will need to be a winter project. I was swamped and am about the only one in this area that repairs watercraft. In fact, most of the watercraft parts ordered through the afore mentioned shop for the last 5 years have been for me with the exception of complete engines. I build all my own, many times with your cranks as seen in other said shops previous purchases ( for me). Finally, working through my winter projects, I tore down this Kawi 900. It is my proffessional opinion that this failure is due to excessive piston to cylinder clearance. So much that the piston rocking appears to be the basis of this failure. Had this cylinder been setup with proper spec this would still be running and I wouldn't be here asking for some resolution. I don't feel that this has much to do with warranty as it does workmanship that shouldn't have been sent out in the first place.

    The serial of the engine
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  2. #2
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    Piston tops showing a little wetness and a perfect fuel wash pattern. Machine is run at 40:1 premix and i personally dial in the carbs at the lake using a temp gun and plug reading.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  3. #3
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    Here's where the diagnosis gets interesting. Piston exhaust sides, clearly showing rings catching on the exhaust ports. Obviously the front went first and the combustion events afterwards made a blackened mess. You can plainly see #3 was not far behind and damage pattern is EXACTLY the same as #1. Also visible here is the coating on the piston skirts not completely worn away showing overall low hour runtime but at the same time worn much more right in the middle suggesting piston skirt slapping. Another point of interest is the slightly indented/worn marking on the intake side making a nice outline of the boost port. I would imagine this happens to be right where the slapping occured.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  4. #4
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    This is the #3 (rear) cylinder. You can see the very obvious wear above the exhaust port but thats not what caught me eye. What really grabbed my attention was the still visible honing marks but yet a very heavy ridge up top. That makes me think an already worn, but not scored, cylinder was honed and just bolted straight on. So i got out my digital caliper and did some measuring. The pistons measure out at 73.88mm and are marked 1.00. Ok, thats great, it would put us at about 4 1/2 thou clearance with a 74mm bore. The only problem is that the bores measure out at 74.10mm. Now, the way I see it looking at the piston skirt wear VS the cylinder wear and taking into account the visible honing marks, there is no way this engine started out at proper piston to cylinder clearance. Right now it sits at 9.5-10 thou. Even if we were to guess on the HEAVY wear side per hours of runtime and give a couple thou extra, that would STILL put us at starting out with almost twice the clearance we should have had. I strongly feel this was a hurried/botched job that should not have been sent out and special consideration should be taken.
    Thank you for your time.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  5. #5

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    Karl:
    • All of our engines are built on a daily production schedule with tracking and testing though the production process, not a “hurried/botched job” as you suggested.
    • While errors do occur, the condition of the top of the piston and the seizure marks on the on the side of the cylinder look like they could be from a cooling problem driven seizure or cold seizure which would could cause ring seizure. It there were rocking of the piston as you say the wear would be excessive on the tops and bottoms of the pistons – the graphite coating on the picture you show seem to demonstrate the most wear at the middle of the piston (besides of the seizure marks).
    • In fact, this engine is a replacement for the original SBT motor that was warranted in Nov 2016 for the same type of failure (notes from 11/2016 warranty claim):
    o LEAN CONDITION REAR CYLINDER, PISTON MELTED DOWN EXHAUST SIDE, BEYOND RING LANDS, HOLE BURNT THROUGH SIDE OF PISTON SKIRT, SKIRT SCORED ON EXHAUST SIDE
    • There seems to be a underlying issue with the ski that caused these same failures. Did you ask the customer if they had any similar failures before posting this?
    • Unfortunately, on an engine almost 1-year out of warranty in this condition we would not be able to replace it.

  6. #6
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    Thanks for your reply.
    o LEAN CONDITION REAR CYLINDER, PISTON MELTED DOWN EXHAUST SIDE, BEYOND RING LANDS, HOLE BURNT THROUGH SIDE OF PISTON SKIRT, SKIRT SCORED ON EXHAUST SIDE
    I would agree with this as I found crud in the fuel system AND creased/deformed fuel pump diaphragms. Which I corrected while installing the warranted engine.
    • There seems to be a underlying issue with the ski that caused these same failures.
    Definitely not the same failure, perfect fuel wash on piston tops with no signs of running lean.I can't help but think theres no way that wear ridge
    could possibly appear with these low hours from a fresh properly clearance bore. Maybe I'm mistaken but I've been doing this a long time. I will post pics so other pros can guess failure mode.
    • Unfortunately, on an engine almost 1-year out of warranty in this condition we would not be able to replace it.
    Yes, and I would not expect you to, was thinking more like comping a few parts or discounted parts to repair it. I will obviously need 3x 1.5mm over pistons, crank seals,
    and a gasket set. That is, after I talk with the customer.
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  7. #7
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    OK, so I guess your in house experts have no opinions on this??
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  8. #8

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    - The response I provided on 1/29 was after having a sit down with the head of Tech, the head of 2-stroke production and myself and inspecting the pictures that you provided. That would be all the in-house experts with a combined 40+ years in the company.
    - You last comment was that you were getting in touch with your customer. If you have please contact Paul in tech on the feedback your customer supplied about previous failures.

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,036

    Re: Any warranty special exceptions

    After posting pics and receiving feedback by respected members of this forum I did as one member suggested. I reassembled the top end and performed a leakdown.......or not! Wouldn't
    hold anything and I could hear the ir leaking from behind the flywheel. Bingo! A lean situation for sure, tore it back down to inspect. Here are the VERY
    disappointing pics. Especially since I have used quite a few of your cranks in various builds.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0