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  1. #11
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home WFO Speedracer's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    Mine is a fixed steer with a few inches off the back and tubbies , it handles nothing like a pole ski
    Get your Fat Dudes T-shirts right here PM me for details !

  2. #12
    I dream skis silverado87's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    Wow nice to see the 650sx slammers aren't here! As others have said, it's all what you prefer. The 650 will never corner like an sxr, but it's more playful...the 650 won't be as good at freestyle as an SJ, but it handles a lot differently. Modded 650's are a lot of fun in my humble opinion...I currently own a modded 650, 550 conversion ski, and an sxr. I've also owned a 750sxi and ridden a couple modded out SJs...crazy low end on the SJ, but I don't like the feel of the hull and how they handle...I love the Kawi lean. If you're having fun on it, don't let anyone tell you you need to upgrade...if anything, mod what you got!
    1988 650sx- ground up resto, RAD flywheel, Solas prop, Jet Dynamics ride plate, Worx intake, Keihin 42 carb, Factory pipe, Jettrim mats-44.6 MPH
    http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.p...light=88+650sx
    1992 550sx "567" ground up resto, Group K sleeper ported 650, 750 pump w/ Skat 9/17, Sudco 42, stock mod pipe, RAD flywheel, JRE quick steer, Jettrim pads- 48.5 mph
    http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.p...light=92+550sx
    2009 SXR-​ bone stock

  3. #13
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home hyosung's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    yep, will never corner like an sxr , who said that ?????? , pic has been posted before to show that a 650 sx hull can carve quite well!, i surf ride with SJ old and new a couple of foot rockets with my black ski , you just gotta know how to ride them and you can hang with the best of them,
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2 x 650 sx custom build (my toys) http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=425767

    modded X2 650

    stock looking ZXI 900 ""being cannibalized to sponsor a 650 sx build """

    Jerry Rigging is my specialty .....


    Originally Posted by hyosung
    so when you say i """ hammer and slap things together """ this may be so , BUT they are hammered and slapped together SOLID

  4. #14
    I dream skis silverado87's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    No one said you can't get a 650sx to corner...just that it's not naturally as good at cornering as an sxr. I think anyone who's ridden both skis would agree with this
    1988 650sx- ground up resto, RAD flywheel, Solas prop, Jet Dynamics ride plate, Worx intake, Keihin 42 carb, Factory pipe, Jettrim mats-44.6 MPH
    http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.p...light=88+650sx
    1992 550sx "567" ground up resto, Group K sleeper ported 650, 750 pump w/ Skat 9/17, Sudco 42, stock mod pipe, RAD flywheel, JRE quick steer, Jettrim pads- 48.5 mph
    http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.p...light=92+550sx
    2009 SXR-​ bone stock

  5. #15
    I dream skis
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    I haven't ridden a 650SX, but my 1992 750SX isn't known to handle super great. Newer hulls obviously make a difference, but handling parts make a huge difference too, IMO, first and foremost a scoop grate. I have a Solas on my 750, and my god did it make a difference- can carve much more aggressively and can actually run it full out for a reasonable period of time and have some control. Previously I had an R&D grate without any type of scoop and it was very squirrely. Only downside is that it takes a bit more effort to hop the ski, but still very doable.

    I also shimmed my (R&D) ride plate. I used longer bolts with about 3/8" of washers at the back of the plate to build a few degrees into the plate, to help the boat ride more nose down.
    1992 750SX with mods
    1991 X-2
    1996 SS

    I have more skis than friends.

  6. #16
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    Quote Originally Posted by jscase View Post
    So... I have a 650SX (the one in my bio picture). It's my baby and I love it - my wife doesn't understand the bond!! I'm still trying to master riding it, getting better each time I ride it. My question is this... Are the newer Yamaha and Kawasaki stand-up skis any easier to ride? Balancing on my 650 is like walking a tightrope until I get moving. Just wondering if anything has improved with the newer models. - Jim
    jscase, this basically depends on a few things and what you want out of the ski's handling. Kawasakis, and the 2008+ superjet are leaning skis. In order to turn them to their full potential, you need to lean and carve. They feel like various diameter logs. They will just roll right over. The 2008+ SJ has a bit more trickery going on, but they basically modified a very stable hull to handle the same way. In some ways, that ski feels like a log with two side supports that only support you in the water when you turn, if that makes sense. I am absolutely 1000% a fan of this handling for normal rec riding, as I enjoy carving up a storm. They are easy to roll because you want them to be easy to turn.

    The SN superjet from 90-95 and the RN from 96-07 handle differently. They are flat turning skis. Their hull inherently has more side to side stability. They are more like a narrow raft or tri hull- tons more side support. They don't need you to roll in order to turn, you just steer the bars and try and keep your weight centered on the ski so it can do your thing. A good chunk of aftermarket skis handle this way. My brother's xscream feels more stable than a SJ, and feels way shorter and more nimble to steer. In my opinion, this handling is best suited towards freestyle and is somewhat obsolete for racing. It's just hard work to keep them hooked up and corner well. That is not to say at all you can't have fun on them, it just takes more work and a very different riding style to take turns fast. On these skis, you can spend more of your time jumping wakes and doing tricks because they do take less effort to stay balanced on.

    That said, the older Kawasakis are definitely obsolete too, but are tons of fun. They have two main issues with their hull design in my opinion. Lack of rear end grip in anything approaching a fast turn, and severe lack of side support to pop you back up after a hard carve. The rear grip can be mitigated to some degree with riding style, but really you need a good ride plate that locks the rear, and possibly rear sponsons. The front side pop is solved by front sponsons/ tubbies. I have not been on a Kawasaki, sxr included, that hasn't felt massively improved while turning with tubbies added. On my 550/800, the tubbies were a more important addition than the 800 engine for all out fun.

    One thing to note is that the 2008+ is VERY different from older superjets. I came from spending the majority of time on my 550 and various 750s before I transitioned. First time I test rode a 2008+ I thought it felt like my brother's sxi pro with a superjet pole and tubbies. It is 1000% a leaning ski, and feels as nimble and unstable going straight as my 550. They carve up a storm, and feel way more stable when you turn. They are, stock for stock, in my opinion, more advanced and better handling than the sxr. In a nut shell they feel much more nimble, have more side pop stock with the built in sponsons, and the rear is locked down way better thanks to the set back pump and ride plate. I think a sxr would need a good intake, ride plate, and maybe tubbies to keep up stock for stock around buoys.

    When we run buoys I am as fast around them on my 2009 as a good friend on a sxi pro with a factory pipe who has been riding almost 30 years. And that is with only basic handling mods to help improve the turning and hook up a bit. He has got me a bit on the longer straights, but I can take him everywhere else. In tight turns I can hang with the 1100 sxrs too. On the older hulls, you have to work so hard to keep them hooked up, that takes away from getting around corners. On the 2008+, all your efforts go into making the ski rock the buoys, there is no wasted effort. All in all, for general rec riding, I'd take my current stock engine/ no pipe 2009 SJ to any Kawasaki 2 cylinder with a pipe. And I am a Kawasaki guy at heart. As far as I see it, Yamaha just built a better Kawasaki than Kawasaki did, that's all! Lol.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 09-11-2017 at 07:30 AM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  7. #17
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    Also here are my thoughts on my 650sx I built and sold. I loved that ski and still miss it! And yes while on any given turn I might be able to match my 2009 SJ, around a buoy course it would take significantly more effort and wear you out faster. More energy has to be expended overcoming the hulls limitations. Probably just about every ski has this issue compared to the 2008+ SJ except for the 03-11 sxr. It's hull can rock the turns, it's just a much bigger, heavier ski better suited for 1100s and a few hull mods in my opinion.

    http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.p...215&highlight=
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 09-11-2017 at 07:39 AM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  8. #18
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    theVetteman3: Post #16 and #17 combined contain the most helpful information I have ever read on this or any other pwc forum. Kudo's to you buddy! Thank you.

    The only thing you left out, is your description of the X2 hull riding characteristics.

    Post #16 and #17 should be combined and made a sticky.

    (As a personal note even as a newbie, I just don't get and thought it was me that I can't ride our '94 SN SJ as well as our Kawasakis. Your posts confirm my unarticulated experience.)

  9. #19
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    Ha thanks man, glad to know my thoughts are appreciated.

    I actually have a soft spot for the X2, because one was my first ski. The X2 hull bottom is very similar to the 650sx. Same width, ect, with at least one advance over the 650sx hull- the built in arc on each side of the hull which is, what I think, a very early form of a large tubbie. In handling terms, it's the same diameter log as the 650sx. Just pole / fixed steer add some feel differences. Actually I learned to carve on stand ups from taking what I knew about carving on the x2, keeping the same wide foot stance, and practicing letting it roll over in turns.

    The Wave Jammer, which I also really enjoy, is also interesting. It and the WR500 are perhaps the widest, most stable "raft" in this analogy. But, with a lot of force to get it to lean over, it will carve pretty darn well. I posted a video on my thread in the individual builds section. It is super wide so you really have to throw it over, but because of the width, it's very progressive and predictable. And it has a ton of side pop, it really wants to throw you upright after a turn which is amazing. The fun and challenging thing is that if you don't get it leaned over just right in a turn, and if the turn is flatter, it will just spin out and you'll do a 180 or 360. Makes for some excitement for guys following you when you're running buoys and you're suddenly pointed right back at them lol. I have been thinking about putting ProWatercraft tubbies on it, but I think it would harm the handling, as it already has so much pop. I wouldn't want to make it harder to lean over or keep leaned over. Also important to note that I'm running double the hp one of these skis makes stock, with a very aggressive intake. I'm not sure how easily a stock ski can be leaned over and turn, it might just cavitate up a storm.

    Again hope that helps. I try to be objective with my reviewing to be useful to others here. That said I do have my preference and the 2008+ SJ really gets under my skin. It's the Lotus Elise of the jet ski world, especially with bars, Worx 228 intake, and a KP steering nozzle adaptor. Those mods really make it a dream handling wise. Also of note, my brother's 1100 mod sxr, which has substantial hull mods done by mtrhead, it's previous owner, is another favorite handling hull of mine for buoys. The mods he did get it really close to an aftermarket sxr hull as I understand it. The difference compared to my brother's stock hull, limited 1100 sxr are shocking. They feel like two different skis. the mod is so light and nimble. It feels way shorter, smaller, lighter, and hook up is phenomenally better. The weight of the 1100 is completely masked and then some.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 09-11-2017 at 09:11 AM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  10. #20
    PWCToday Regular newtondeegan's Avatar
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    Re: Kawasaki 650SX vs newer stand-up skis

    If you get sponsons, ride plate, impeller, and pipe mod on your 650sx and it will be just as fun, but cheaper than newer skis.

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