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  1. #11
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by tjmonsen5 View Post
    I think the problem isn't the prop, just the fact that it is a 550 pump. It will never have the thrust of a 140mm pump.
    Not true, at least in every instance. On my ski there definitely was some overlap. A 13/18 small hub swirl with the Rhaas 750 pump swap had very similar performance as a 20 in my sx pump. Like I have said before, a perfectly set up 550 pump will be better than a poorly set up 650 / 750 pump. It is also a blessing and a curse that such a wide range of impeller choices can be used in the 750 pump swap. It can be hard to nail down exactly what pitch to use for max performance. You end up having like 8 impellers, which is fine with me, lol.

    The whole deal about small vs big pumps is right in line with what the FX1 guys have always said, and I see why that can be true now. Especially considering swirl impellers are available for the stock pump.

    But in this case, fast I think changing your pipe would be a good improvement. I'm sure you're keeping your eyes open for a better one. I was just talking to our riding group the last time I was out, and the general consensus was based on experience that a dried out stock 650 pipe would be equally as good, and maybe better than the westcoast in some instances! So that really shows where that pipe is, because I would never in a million years put a 650 pipe on a dual 750. It would choke the power down like crazy.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 09-12-2017 at 02:01 PM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  2. #12
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by fastgtfairlane View Post
    its strange, my ported reed engine had more bottom end than my 750 engine in the same ski with same basic pump setup just different pitch. from midrange on though, this 750 would pull away from my reed setup i believe.
    Then something is massively, massively wrong. I definitely think its the pipe. We already know at best that pipe is a high end pipe. The whole reason for these conversions is huge grunt down low. Especially with the dual carbs you're using.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  3. #13
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fastgtfairlane's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    Quote Originally Posted by theVetteman3 View Post
    Not true, at least in every instance. On my ski there definitely was some overlap. A 13/18 small hub swirl with the Rhaas 750 pump swap had very similar performance as a 20 in my sx pump. Like I have said before, a perfectly set up 550 pump will be better than a poorly set up 650 / 750 pump. It is also a blessing and a curse that such a wide range of impeller choices can be used in the 750 pump swap. It can be hard to nail down exactly what pitch to use for max performance. You end up having like 8 impellers, which is fine with me, lol.

    The whole deal about small vs big pumps is right in line with what the FX1 guys have always said, and I see why that can be true now. Especially considering swirl impellers are available for the stock pump.

    But in this case, fast I think changing your pipe would be a good improvement. I'm sure you're keeping your eyes open for a better one. I was just talking to our riding group the last time I was out, and the general consensus was based on experience that a dried out stock 650 pipe would be equally as good, and maybe better than the westcoast in some instances! So that really shows where that pipe is, because I would never in a million years put a 650 pipe on a dual 750. It would choke the power down like crazy.
    yeah i dont think my bottom end issue is really in the pump or impeller. the 550 pump can be tuned to perform much better than in stock form with being able to adjust outlet nozzle diameter and pump cones which also affect the pump load vs pressure balance. i definitely think my issue has a lot more to do with the pipe than impeller combo. i feel like my impeller pitch should have lots of bottom end grunt more so than top end but it doesnt quit pulling on top especially in smoother water. the open grate of the shredmaster doesnt hold the pump in the water in chop like a top loader would. in choppy water, my ski just cant stay in the water. i have a factory b pipe with a 650 sj chamber and it is over 6 inches longer and 1/4 larger around. the westcoast pipe is 4 3/4 od and the b pipe is over 5 inch od. id like to modify the 650 sj chamber to fit but it would take at very least doing a center bleed pipe setup and some more clearancing around the flywheel cover area. there is already a small clearance dent there but it will need more to fit the kawi cases. also might need some clearancing on the hull side as well but it looks to be minimal. but i think it would be pretty awesome to get a sj mod chamber or the 650 chamber to work. the limited chamber is i think about the same length as the 650 chamber and the mod chamber is just over an inch shorter than the 650 chamber. im sure if i change the pipe i would be back to square one with impeller pitch and carb tuning. the other option i think im gonna try first is to see if i can extend the westcoast pipe length a good 3-4 inches. that should bring some more power down lower in the rpm range and i can dry the pipe out more to get some rpm back.
    91 440; PJS Viper 7000, jetsport exhaust mani, factory full pipe, coffman waterbox,solas 17*, jetco worked 440 pump, ocean pro nozzles. shredmaster ocean rideplate and grate combo, wide tray, footholds, deep strake mod, driveshaft fill,650sx quick turn

    build thread part 1: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=331343
    build thread part 2: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=364872
    build thread part 3: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=396154

  4. #14
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    Yea you might be back at square 1 if you go with a SJ chamber. Since the port timing is different, if my memory is correct, a mod Yamaha SJ chamber is the same length as a limited Kawasaki chamber. That's one reason why lengthened kawi pipes (such as a cheater pipe- dried out oem 650 pipe, with a longer a/m convergent cone) work so well on Yamaha engines. Also to my knowledge, the 701 FP SJ chambers have a hard time fitting around the 750 cases. I had a mod chamber at some point and I was trying to fit it in my 550/750 and gave up. I didn't want to modify the SJ chamber though, I'd have to look again at that if I was willing to do so.

    Regarding the pipe size, most good 650/750 chambers are right at 5-5.25. PJS EX2650 is 5" and so is the Coffmans. I believe the Kawasaki 650 factory pipe is 5.25 and the limited 750 is bigger still. It has been a while since I've looked at it, but the further you increase this diameter, the more non-linear the power will be. Bigger hit but also bigger power decrease before the hit. It'll feel like a bigger turbocharger. And since the Coffmans and westcoast are both cast their wall thickness will also be greater, so the ID, the dimension that really matters, will be less.

    Since this is a unique pitch impeller, it makes sense that there might be a bit of a jetting difference, but I think the major issue is that this pipe just isn't making the power, especially down low, that it should be.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 09-13-2017 at 07:20 AM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  5. #15
    Resident Guru still standin's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    Good Info Frank.
    "Regarding the pipe size, most good 650/750 chambers are right at 5-5.25. PJS EX2650 is 5" and so is the Coffmans."

    Add the Mariner 650 chambeer to this 5" diameter club. I bought one to replace the dented cone on my PJS EX2650 pipe and it is almost identical to the PJS. Only difference is the Mariner cone starts to tapper to a "point" slightly faster than the PJS.
    -Bulldog Freestyle 550/750 - http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=457962
    -92 550sx/650 conversion
    -94 750sx modded
    -86 X2 - Twin carb 750 swap

  6. #16
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fastgtfairlane's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    this pipe definitely has a linear power feel, no real hit. i went out today for a little bit. the plugs are very dark brown. i did a full throttle chop. held it wide open for a good 30-40 seconds and shut it down. the ground was a dark grayish color almost and the insulator was dark brown. these plugs have a few rides in them. last ride session was a long no wake zone putt to the beach we were at. i put a fresh set of plugs in and rode it again. mainly mid to full throttle bursts few laps and full speed shut off. the insulator was dark brown again while the ground strap was light tan color. im thinking im a bit rich on the bottom and maybe a little lean on the top. gonna try a 75 low and 140 main and see how it runs. it felt crisper of the bottom for sure with fresh plugs so i feel like its too rich on the low speed jet. maybe a little lean on top.

    regarding the pipe, i tried taking the restrictor out of the inlet line to let more water into the pipe, also opened the flow control valve a turn or two to open sooner. it helped a little on the bottom and hurt some on the top for sure. maybe i can find a happy medium. if it were longer i could run it a little warmer to get a few more rpms. i have a dedicated cooling line for the pipe which allows for more tuning.

    looking at the 750sx limited pipe looks to be pretty similar in length maybe a little less overall volume than the limited setup. ive heard of guys running sj chambers in 750 x2 setups with good results. i think the chamber i have would work pretty well with this engine. thankfully mine is the 650 chamber which isnt as valuable as the newer limited and mod chambers so i dont feel quite as bad about possibly messing it up haha. im really thinking about putting a yamaha engine in my other hull that has a 650 pump tunnel glassed in. to make the chamber fit to the kawi engine would involve more denting a few more inches in the case area. not very deep denting just a little. its already got a factory dent there to clear the yamaha cases.
    91 440; PJS Viper 7000, jetsport exhaust mani, factory full pipe, coffman waterbox,solas 17*, jetco worked 440 pump, ocean pro nozzles. shredmaster ocean rideplate and grate combo, wide tray, footholds, deep strake mod, driveshaft fill,650sx quick turn

    build thread part 1: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=331343
    build thread part 2: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=364872
    build thread part 3: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=396154

  7. #17
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fastgtfairlane's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    operation extend and enlarge the pipe is complete! well mostly. still have to do some more finish work to the pipe before its finally in but its welded up and mocked in and fits like a glove! as mentioned earlier the puny pipe length and smaller diameter seem to be holding the 750 engine down on the lower rpms. the cast aluminum westcoast chamber is 4.75 OD and 4.5ID and was about 25 or so inches long from the back of the headpipe to the end of the stinger. i was able to find a piece of 6061, 5in OD, .125 thickness and 4.75ID aluminum pipe locally at a metal shop. i bought a 12in length piece. had to strip the old paint off the pipe before doing any welding. I used some premium paint stripper from lowes that you spray on and let it sit for 15min and rinse off. i still have some paint on the head pipe to remove but got where i needed off to do the welding. what i decided to do was to cut the head pipe rings off with 1/2 of material past the very first ring, ground it down so the new pipe would fit over it. i left the last ring on to get the new pipe to line up flush so it didnt end up crooked. i extended the head pipe 1/2 longer than it was and did the same thing on the stinger. cut all of rings off except the last and extended it 2 inches longer than it was. i still have to do some more grinding inside the pipe to let the exhaust flow easier and probably use some epoxy putty to smooth it out. the pipe is now 2.5 inches longer with over 1/4 inch diameter larger so quite a bit more volume. i also cut the end of the pipe off and made a little angle in it so it lined up with the water box better. i didnt like how the hose had a bend in it before. luckily the hose i used had a slight bend already molded in. im super stoked it fits as well as it does and with a little heatgun work to the tank, itll work too. it fits ok just touching in 2-3 spots. im really hoping this will make quite a bit more power with better bottom end as well. i took a pic with the stinger line there to give an idea how much longer the pipe is now compared to the length of the cooling hose.

    one thing pretty neat about the westcoast pipe is if you take the rear water outlet fitting off, the spray hole is literally right there. it could easily be drilled out and put a main jet in so you can tune how much water injects into the exhaust stream much like how the factory b pipes work. i might also mess with this soon as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by fastgtfairlane; 09-19-2017 at 09:40 PM.
    91 440; PJS Viper 7000, jetsport exhaust mani, factory full pipe, coffman waterbox,solas 17*, jetco worked 440 pump, ocean pro nozzles. shredmaster ocean rideplate and grate combo, wide tray, footholds, deep strake mod, driveshaft fill,650sx quick turn

    build thread part 1: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=331343
    build thread part 2: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=364872
    build thread part 3: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=396154

  8. #18
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    Wow nicely done! Boy does that fit like a glove. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the difference.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller ported 800, SXR Mikunis, 650 PJS pipe, Rhaas 750 pump conv. w/ 11/17 Hooker [56.3mph gps]
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, bars, Worx 228 intake[45.6mph gps]
    2009 SJ:
    rebuild in process
    1987 WJ650: 6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, 650sx cheater pipe[42.4mph gps]

    1998 SXI PRO:
    800 Superstock, 3DR hull mods[TBD mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 820cc, SS porting, Novi 48mm, VForce 3, Advent, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl
    [53.7mph gps]



  9. #19
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fastgtfairlane's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    haha thanks man. i cant take credit for the work just the ideas and how to do it. a local jetski friend who is a tig welder by trade welded it up for me. hes a badass with a tig welder. he builds race parts and chassis for those can am side by side things. the old aluminum cast of the westcoast pipe was very dirty. yeah im pretty excited to see the difference im hoping it will make. im glad i decided to cut the end off and move it otherwise theres no way it wouldve worked without modifying the waterbox, it was a pain getting it to work before the pipe was modified.
    91 440; PJS Viper 7000, jetsport exhaust mani, factory full pipe, coffman waterbox,solas 17*, jetco worked 440 pump, ocean pro nozzles. shredmaster ocean rideplate and grate combo, wide tray, footholds, deep strake mod, driveshaft fill,650sx quick turn

    build thread part 1: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=331343
    build thread part 2: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=364872
    build thread part 3: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=396154

  10. #20
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fastgtfairlane's Avatar
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    Re: blue 550 gets heart transplant

    So i got the pipe cleaned up, had to do some work to the inside where the new piece slips over the old one and was welded on the outside. i just went with some high temp, jb weld epoxy putty to fill the void inside. you can see the pic of the inside of the stinge cone. i forgot to take a pic of the inside after the epoxy was in. was able to use a little water to smooth out the putty after i stuffed it into the crevis. i didnt get too crazy with getting every inch of paint off. im sometimes tooo impatient and anxious to see results. im like a little kid no patience haha. this time was no different. anyway so i got the pipe in, picked up some really nice clamps for the coupler from a local diesel shop. got the pipe in and headed to the lake. i did a little cooling line rerouting on the pipe just moving the inlet from the pump to the rear so the spray hole gets fresh pump water instead of preheated water from the headpipe.

    after a water test, it literally feels like i had a stock pipe on and put a new one on! wow what a difference, it has soo much more power on the bottom end and honestly all the way up to redline. i have no gps, or tach to verify anything however it seems like i didnt loose any rpms on top either. seems to have significantly more power all the way through the throttle. still no real hit, just a linear power, very smooth but never quits pulling. its still no crazy bottom end ski but it is a definite improvemant over how it was before the pipe extension. best 50 dollars ever spent on a jetski part!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    91 440; PJS Viper 7000, jetsport exhaust mani, factory full pipe, coffman waterbox,solas 17*, jetco worked 440 pump, ocean pro nozzles. shredmaster ocean rideplate and grate combo, wide tray, footholds, deep strake mod, driveshaft fill,650sx quick turn

    build thread part 1: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=331343
    build thread part 2: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=364872
    build thread part 3: http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=396154

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