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  1. #21
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=40840

    This should help get it sorted.
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  2. #22
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    Myself: Holy cow, I was just talking to my wife about how helpful you are. And about how I am learning about fixing "her" Superjet and want to test a couple of things on it this morning. And lo and behold you found my thread and posted up that link!

    You sir, are a good person. And you deserve a great weekend. Have a good one!
    Last edited by E350; 09-16-2017 at 02:08 PM.
    Learning Slowly...

  3. #23
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    The blue is from the JetSkiSolutions thread which Myself recommended. My results are in red:

    "JetSki Solutions

    ELECTRICAL / IGNITION PROBLEMS guide


    Well, the season is here. Since so many have electrical ignition questions, I thought it would be handy to keep this "quick test" guide at the top. I hope this helps everyone make a quick diagnosis 8)


    This applies for most any ignition problem with the 701 61X or 62T series ignition components.

    1. check the AC output of the "charge" coil. ... [I]t "charges" the cdi capacitor. This coil can generate in excess of 500 volts!!

    Disconnect the brown / white trace wire and ground wire and connect the meter leads to these wires, and while cranking the engine, observe the reading. You should have 30 to 50 volts AC depending on how good a battery and starter you have.


    Our battery is good and was hooked up to a battery maintainer during the tests.

    My results were 65-66 Volts AC (which exceeds the recommended result by 10-15 volts AC)

    This is what JetSkiSolutions says about the resistance test:

    61X: charge coil, brown / white trace to ground / black: 365 +- 10% ohms

    62T: Charge coil, brown / white trace to ground / black: 497 to 608 ohms


    I don't know if our stock 1994 701cc Superjet is a 61X or a 62T engine. But, my result was 351.8 ohms which is within 10% if the engine is a 61X but is 145.2 less than the minimum 497 ohms recommended for a 62T.

    2. Check the pulser coil output. It's job is to tell the cdi when to fire the energy stored in the capacitor. Disconnect the white / red trace wire and connect the meter leads to this wire and the ground wire. You should get a pulsating 4 to 5 volts AC. (ps, an analog meter is best for this test).

    I used a digital volt meter in conjunction with an Innova 3420 powered test light / circuit tester and the red light (meaning positive) was clearly pulsing.

    My results were 5.19 - 5.20 volts AC (which exceeds the recommended result by .19 -.20 volts AC

    Pulser coil, white / red trace to ground / black: 12.6 to 15.4

    My result was 14.7 ohms.


    3. If you are having problems with the battery not recharging, then disconnect the two green wires and read the cranking voltage produced by the "lighting" coil. This coil's name is a throw back from the old enduro bike days, when the manufacturer would add a coil to the stator to operate head, brake and turn signal lights....without a battery, and later with. Anyway, you should see 6 to 10 volts or so here, again AC.

    I do not believe we ever had a problem with the battery not recharging, but we always put our batteries on BatteryMinder maintainers when we get home from riding.

    There are two green wires. I was unsure how to test them, so I tested each of them separately with the other meter lead attached to ground. I got 5.95 volts AC which is .05 volts less than what the minimum 6 volts recommended.

    Lighting coil, green / green wires: 1.14 to 1.40 ohms. Since this coil is not grounded in any way to the stator frame, you can check this coil for leakage to ground (indicating bad insulation) by measuring between either green wire and ground with your meter set on the highest ohms scale, usually 20 to 40 meg ohms. If you get any reading, the coil is going bad.

    My results were 184.1 ohms on one of the green leads and 6.03 ohms on the other green lead. Since JetSkiSolutions says "if you get any reading, the coil is going bad" I assume that I have a bad lighting coil. But the lighting coil only recharges the battery right? So would that cause a crank no spark condition?

    Ok guys and gals those are my results. Any suggestions for further testing? And thoughts about what is causing my crank no spark condition?
    Last edited by E350; 10-02-2017 at 05:03 AM.
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  4. #24
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    One more thing, the above tests were done with the stock coil which was just received back from JetSkiSolutions remanufactured with new spark plug wires.
    Learning Slowly...

  5. #25
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    If the lighting coil is bad then you aren't getting enough voltage to the rectifier to keep a good 12v supply to the electronics. I dont think that would cause a no spark until the battery voltage dropped out too low. Could be faulty wiring to the stator or bad solder joint at the stator on a green wire. Either way it should not read to ground, figure that out and if you still get no spark then you will need a cdi. All your other stator readings are fine.
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  6. #26
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    Myself: Thanks! Will do. Your approach reminds me of a saying which goes something like this: "Mechanics look to the component. Electricians look at the wiring." And according to an electrical diagnosis book I have been reading, 80% of electrical issues are caused by wiring.

    I should be able to test the lighting coil's green wires with a powered test light to determine if it is shorted to ground. And I guess it is time to take the stator cover off to visually inspect and test the lighting coil. If I free it from its mount on the timing plate (?), and if it is still grounded out, then the wiring between and the E-box is shorting and if not it will be winding on the coil itself. I have never yet removed the stator cover on one of these engines. I will take a look at the Service Manual.
    Learning Slowly...

  7. #27
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    Interesting:

    "The stock Superjet system is a true magneto ignition and charging, the only reason you need a battery is for the electric starter, if yamaha wanted to... it could be fitted with a pull start."

    Myself, is that true? Then having a good battery is irrelevant to having a good spark (in this model Yamaha at least). Spark is all about having a good charge coil -- and apparently I have a good charge coil. And I assume that the CDI charge coil circuit and the lighting (battery charging) coil circuit are completely isolated and independent of each other?

    And apparently I have a 61x engine: "They said the product will not work on 61x motors (1994 and 1995 Superjets) due to the different stator and flywheel."

    Above from this thread:

    http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threa...erences.25235/

    Interesting although the poster in this thread is talking about the charge coil (apparently I have a lighting coil problem not a charge coil problem):

    "found the problem. One of the wires on the stator coming off the coil was corroded and had come undone."

    See:

    http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threa...remlins.37785/

    My intuition tells me that after I fix the lighting coil, I will still be looking for a place to buy a good CDI for a 61x 701...

    But intuition is a poor substitute for testing...

    I wonder if the short on the lighting coil could be acting as a sort of "kill switch to ground?" Again, removing the stator cover is going to be required to check this, and I just realized that I have to remove the flywheel to get at the lighting coil. Dang, going to have to read about pulling the flywheel...
    Last edited by E350; 10-02-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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  8. #28
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    You will be ahead of yourself to just siphon out and remove the gas tank. Its very easy and straight forward. Remove 10mm bolts holding the front cover on. Remove front spark plug and ( using a feeler like a dowel rod) rotate flywheel until front piston is tdc, then back down a bit. Feed about 2 ft of 1/4 inch clothesline rope into the cylinder. This will make a piston stop so you can remove the flywheel bolt. A standard harmonic balancer/steering wheel puller will pull it. Squirt a bit of penetrating oil in the center first and heat it. A propane torch will do, its just enough heat to draw the penetrating oil in around the crank snout. Thread the puller bolts into the flywheel only about 1/4 to 3/8 inch, you dont want them hitting the stator. Now snug up the puller bolt nice and tight and with a cheapo socket on the puller bolt whack it a few times with a hammer. They normally pop off with authority. Sometimes when theyre really stuck it takes more heat and more whacking. Good luck.
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

  9. #29
    PWCToday Guru E350's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    I was running two bilge pumps which GroupK says can overload and fry the lighting coil. It looks like our lighting coils is fried. Not to ground, just not what is specified:

    DSC03799.JPG

    Although I have the OEM Yamaha Service Manual, it does not have part numbers for anything but tools. So, I don't know the part number for the lighting coil. And although I looked for a 13-plate Yamaha lighting coil on ebay, I couldn't find one. I know I can have jetskisolutions.com rewire the lighting coil and rehab the entire stator assembly with coils and wiring, I actually took a chance and bought this cheap Chinese stator assembly with all coils and wiring:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-S...tS10lg&vxp=mtr


    s-l1600.jpg
    Last edited by E350; 10-15-2017 at 07:57 PM.
    Learning Slowly...

  10. #30
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Myself's Avatar
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    Re: Crank No Start No Spark Troubleshooting Decision Tree '94 701 SN SJ

    Good luck, its hit or miss with the chinese stuff. Your chances of it working properly are 50%
    http://www.facebook.com/twinlakesjetskirepair

    '89 Kawi 650SX 42.4 GPS
    +3" stock pipe, ported ex. manifold, drilled waterbox, blueprinted pump, Ocean Pro ride plate

    '99 Yama GP1200 65U 61.8 GPS
    ported cylinders, matched cases, milled head, blueprinted pump, long ride plate

    '96 Seadoo HX 717 53.13 GPS
    light porting, massaged cases, lightened flywheel, port matched manifolds, Rossier pipe, stubby pump cone

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