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  • kartracer41
    Resident Guru
    • Oct 2010
    • 1138

    #16
    Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

    Originally posted by Waxhead View Post
    4-4.5 thou
    assuming the bore was half *** good & had cast pistons,then the forged pistons he wants to use should work if he order the right size.never the less,he wanted a cylinder he could use,if he was thinking it was gonna show up & the pistons he had were gonna work,well,nevermind,is it to much to measure it, get pistons & take it to have them fit to the bore???
    sigpicRGR Racing.com

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    • Cleatusjo
      PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
      • Aug 2014
      • 2408

      #17
      Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

      Must have the pistons. You only want to hone .0005 . So you measure the piston, leaving .001 at the most for honing. It's a lot easier to bore than hone. Really important if it's cast iron as it glazes up if you try to hone more than a few ten thousanths
      '94 Kawi TS 650
      2002 Kawi STX-R 1200
      too much to list

      Comment

      • wmazz
        PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
        • Jul 2013
        • 3578

        #18
        Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

        Originally posted by 88kawi5fiddy View Post
        But running 0.0045 clearance on a forged piston that big is just asinine in my opinion.
        Nothing wrong with .0045 clearance.

        If an engine is prone to seizing, it will seize even if the clearance is .010" to .012"

        That said I would prefer oem cast pistons at .0035" to .004". Mainly because any
        forged piston will stick before a cast piston, even when the piston to cylinder clearence
        is an extreme .010" to .012".

        Wiesco pistons got a bad rap in the 70's & 80's because many of their pistons came with
        a dykes ring instead of a stock rectangular ring. The dykes ring raised the compression at
        least 10psi on those pistons, and many of those old engines had poor combustion chamber
        designs. Old ideas die hard, I still get the same pop-off questions I answered in the early 90's.

        I prefer to tune a new set-up within a tight set of guidelines, and if possible use a cast piston
        with 20 to 24:1 high quality oil. Then when the setup is proved to be reliable, there is no reason
        not to use a tight piston to cylinder clearance.

        Goon clearance is a waste of time!


        Bill M.
        Last edited by wmazz; 03-10-2017, 11:35 PM.
        Horsepower == Speed, RPM != Speed


        Comment

        • 88kawi5fiddy
          Top Dog
          • Dec 2011
          • 1756

          #19
          Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

          Originally posted by wmazz View Post
          Nothing wrong with .0045 clearance.

          If an engine is prone to seizing, it will seize even if the clearance is .010" to .012"

          That said I would prefer oem cast pistons at .0035" to .004". Mainly because any
          forged piston will stick before a cast piston, even when the piston to cylinder clearence
          is an extreme .010" to .012".

          Wiesco pistons got a bad rap in the 70's & 80's because many of their pistons came with
          a dykes ring instead of a stock rectangular ring. The dykes ring raised the compression at
          least 10psi on those pistons, and many of those old engines had poor combustion chamber
          designs. Old ideas die hard, I still get the same pop-off questions I answered in the early 90's.

          I prefer to tune a new set-up within a tight set of guidelines, and if possible use a cast piston
          with 20 to 24:1 high quality oil. Then when the setup is proved to be reliable, there is no reason
          not to use a tight piston to cylinder clearance.

          Goon clearance is a waste of time!


          Bill M.
          You do have a lot more experience than I do with this.

          But I'll add that over the last 10 or so motors i've redone, if I use wiseco's clearance on the box, no matter WHAT I do for break-in, the piston around the rings gets chewed up bad.
          Throw an extra 1 or 1.5 thou at it and the horizontal machining pretty much stays intact and have flogged the poor motors until I sold them or the ski.
          Those were mostly stock-ish, and the extra heat from pipes, ignitions, high compression, high rpms, sure isn't going to make the piston shrink

          But regardless to this threads purpose TL;DR: Measured bore, sent doohickey. Doohickey received and bought pistons sight unseen without knowing piston size/clearance.
          1994 1100 SJ - Dead
          1996 spec hx
          "I'm going to be installing the hooker on my driveshaft in the next two weeks." -Element3488

          Comment

          • kartracer41
            Resident Guru
            • Oct 2010
            • 1138

            #20
            Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

            Originally posted by Cleatusjo View Post
            Must have the pistons. You only want to hone .0005 . So you measure the piston, leaving .001 at the most for honing. It's a lot easier to bore than hone. Really important if it's cast iron as it glazes up if you try to hone more than a few ten thousanths
            Theres a lot of shops with fixtures made up for Harley clyinders & so on that go into a sunnen c10 & never get bored.As far as cast or forged pistons,were not discussing what is better,just trying to figure out why this guy would give negative feedback over a problem he created.he could of waited for the cylinder to get there, then ordered pistons that would work.
            sigpicRGR Racing.com

            Comment

            • kartracer41
              Resident Guru
              • Oct 2010
              • 1138

              #21
              Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

              Originally posted by kartracer41 View Post
              Theres a lot of shops with fixtures made up for Harley clyinders & so on that go into a sunnen c10 & never get bored.As far as cast or forged pistons,were not discussing what is better,just trying to figure out why this guy would give negative feedback over a problem he created.he could of waited for the cylinder to get there, then ordered pistons that would work.
              oh yeah, Lets not forget that he's gonna need a new Machinist,the one he used for the last ten years isn't worth a chit.He showed us a cylinder the guy did, but said he was gonna run it anyway.So theres another thing that blows me away,one minute he will run junk then turn around & say he runs his chit a certain way.
              sigpicRGR Racing.com

              Comment

              • Stagesrt4
                PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                • Jun 2010
                • 4711

                #22
                Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                sorry to hear this..

                He has been nothing but good in the past...
                IL Jet rider member #1

                Sean 630-207-2492

                Comment

                • mcn6
                  PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 3285

                  #23
                  Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                  When boring 2 or 4 stroke cast iron or cast iron sleeved cylinders the piston clearance (at least) is typically left for the honing operation. Basically, the actual piston size is the diameter the cylinder when it is removed from the boring bar and the final few thousands are removed with a hone. If a honing operation is glazing a cast iron cylinder there is operator error going on big time!

                  Originally posted by Cleatusjo View Post
                  Must have the pistons. You only want to hone .0005 . So you measure the piston, leaving .001 at the most for honing. It's a lot easier to bore than hone. Really important if it's cast iron as it glazes up if you try to hone more than a few ten thousanths
                  sigpic


                  Home of Newmiller Machine

                  Comment

                  • Cleatusjo
                    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 2408

                    #24
                    Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                    Just takes a really long time to hone thousands without glazing. If your boring is all done in line then .001 is more than enough to hone. Just a time and effort thing. Maybe it reduces the risk of screwing up a cylinder if you leave several thousandths and just let the machine run and hope the stones hold out.

                    Edit : If your honing by hand, then you want to leave as little (.0005 max ) as possible. Then your worst case senario on true position would fall into specs.
                    Last edited by Cleatusjo; 03-22-2017, 11:07 PM.
                    '94 Kawi TS 650
                    2002 Kawi STX-R 1200
                    too much to list

                    Comment

                    • mcn6
                      PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 3285

                      #25
                      Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                      I am not sure what you have been reading, but it is pretty obvious that you have never done this before... Why don't you do yourself and everyone else a favor and actually bore and hone a cylinder using the proper tooling before you comment further.
                      sigpic


                      Home of Newmiller Machine

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                      • Cleatusjo
                        PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 2408

                        #26
                        Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                        I , personally have never left more than .001 of an inch. I've hand honed single cylinders and have NEVER left more than .001. Wheather your a mind reader or not , this is what I do.


                        Edit: If you mean do YOU a favor, then ok I will concede as you do it for a living. I did not read any of this. Was a tool maker for 20 years, rebuilt many cylinders and pumps using cast iron sleeves dutch keyed or spot welded in. never left more than a thousand to hone sand or polish.
                        Last edited by Cleatusjo; 03-23-2017, 01:12 PM.
                        '94 Kawi TS 650
                        2002 Kawi STX-R 1200
                        too much to list

                        Comment

                        • hyosung
                          PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 8469

                          #27
                          Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                          Originally posted by mcn6 View Post
                          I am not sure what you have been reading, but it is pretty obvious that you have never done this before... Why don't you do yourself and everyone else a favor and actually bore and hone a cylinder using the proper tooling before you comment further.
                          and the know all strikes again ! ,? are you taking over from where croka shyt left off ,,,
                          Last edited by hyosung; 03-23-2017, 01:29 PM.
                          http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=425767

                          modded X2 650

                          900 powered custom 650 sx .

                          Jerry Rigging is my specialty .....

                          sigpic

                          if i did like everyone else and copied everything i needed or wanted i would save lots of time and money.

                          Comment

                          • mcn6
                            PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 3285

                            #28
                            Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                            Tool maker huh? You need to stick with whatever it was that you used to do because you don't what you are talking about as far as honing jet ski cylinders.

                            Just so everybody knows, when a cylinder leaves the boring bar it is straight and true with a fairly rough surface finish. Honing 001" will not clean it up, period. What will result is a nasty looking bore as opposed to a clean looking crosshatch finish that everyone expects. And as I mentioned previously, if you are loading stones and glazing cylinders while honing cast iron cylinders you are doing something very wrong.

                            Wait a minute, aren't you the genius from a while back that was trying to convince everybody that you were getting accurate dome volumes without using a flat plate?
                            sigpic


                            Home of Newmiller Machine

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                            • mcn6
                              PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 3285

                              #29
                              Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                              What is that smell... Jesus you stink!

                              Originally posted by hyosung View Post
                              and the know all strikes again ! ,? are you taking over from where croka shyt left off ,,,
                              sigpic


                              Home of Newmiller Machine

                              Comment

                              • hyosung
                                PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 8469

                                #30
                                Re: 88kawi5fiddy dishonest seller

                                Originally posted by mcn6 View Post
                                What is that smell... Jesus you stink!
                                im not Jesus , but you can call me Sir Hyosung if you want , and the stink you are smelling is not me as i am many many miles away from your location , i think that smell must be your kock from sticking it in you pofter boy friends butt hole ,,,
                                http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=425767

                                modded X2 650

                                900 powered custom 650 sx .

                                Jerry Rigging is my specialty .....

                                sigpic

                                if i did like everyone else and copied everything i needed or wanted i would save lots of time and money.

                                Comment

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