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  1. #31
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home JR IN JAX's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Except for the bumps inside of it, it looks like a standard bar resistor which could be expected to be in that circuit.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Looks to me that it is an analog filter network along with maybe some signal conditioning or analog/digital conversion encased in the ceramic. If that is the case and the fault is inside that ceramic module, then there is no hope in fixing or repairing these ECU's.

  3. #33
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    I'm new here. Lurking and reading all I can on these Honda skis. I recently bought an '05 F12X that does not have this problem (yet), and am very interested in the final outcome. I have an extra ECU given to me by a friend.....it had a Code 25.....and am completely game for de-potting and fixing stuff to keep for when mine does fail.

    Was the voltage regulator the root cause of the problem? Or was it that "ceramic thing"?

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  4. #34

    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    The problem is corrosion. The potting fails and cracks. WaTer seeps in and corrodes. The knock sensor is a piezo microphone and the ecm expects a certain amplitude signal for a given rpm. This problem is near impossible to fix. My advice is to get a new ecm vs swimming against the current back to the dock.

    Sometimes the problem is the knock sensor. I would replace that first as they are cheaper. If you can swap in a good ecm to test that is a good way to check the ecm. The knock sensor is a bit harder to get to.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Thanks.

    I'm interested in digging the potting away like the other fellow and find out what corrodes, and if it is fixable. Maybe it isn't, but I'd love to try.

    That all said, my buddy's ECU was not from a turbo ski after all, so I'm looking for one now. Anyone out there have a toasted ECU with Code 25 that you want rid of?

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  6. #36
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperMAC View Post
    The problem is corrosion. The potting fails and cracks. WaTer seeps in and corrodes. The knock sensor is a piezo microphone and the ecm expects a certain amplitude signal for a given rpm. This problem is near impossible to fix. My advice is to get a new ecm vs swimming against the current back to the dock.

    Sometimes the problem is the knock sensor. I would replace that first as they are cheaper. If you can swap in a good ecm to test that is a good way to check the ecm. The knock sensor is a bit harder to get to.
    I don't think this is correct. The failure appears to be in the ceramic filter network, which is impervious to water.

  7. #37
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    I’m game to investigate this further. I’ve got a buddy that’s an Electrical Engineer and develops EFI and DI systems for recreational and marine OEMs. He has a good handle on ECUs and circuit design, although not necessarily Keihin. If I could get a dead ECU and de-pot it, I could take that, a knock sensor, and a wiring diagram and I’ll bet he gives some insight. Maybe it’s the same conclusion as yours.....I’m willing to ask him.

    Also - I’d love to hear back from the other fellow that opened his up and see if the voltage regulator solved his issue.

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  8. #38
    I dream skis skidoc's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    NO FIXXIE>>>>>>> You cant Repair the Honda ECM.
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  9. #39
    PWCToday Regular OZTRAX's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Apologies haven't been following this thread consistency.

    Few answers for you guys,

    1. green thing is a ceramic capacitor, probably 3-20 microfarad range.
    2. to remove potting compound easily, fill a container with isopropyl alcohol and let it cover the whole ECU and board.
    the potting compound will swell and become soft so you can easily scrape it off.
    3. anything a human designed can be fixed

    4. pretty sure I read on a Honda motorbike ECU hack site that certain KEihn ECUs also had a knock sensor problem,
    difference is the replacement ECU is only around $300

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  10. #40
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffw5555 View Post
    I don't think this is correct. The failure appears to be in the ceramic filter network, which is impervious to water.
    I agree again SuperMac going around with false information and Jetski Int. trying to sell ecu's lol. This failure has nothing to do with corrosion or potting cracking and having water seeping into the circuit.

    Here are my thoughts and you only heard it from me. I believe this problem results from the ecu potting material changing its dielectric causing the ecu to fail when heated up by the engine over a prolong period of time. I ran a series of test with warming certain sections of the ecu and I got it to fail right away. The ecu was already a bad ecu but it would run for a long time before the issue comes up.

    The process I did to discover this. So i recently gained access to the ECU firmware in attempt to reflash the ecu. After I figured out how to read a write to the ecu using a scrap ecu, I wanted to try it on the ecu that would run for a while then throw code 25. So i took my heat gun to melt away and open up the ecu in a small section to expose just the programming port to reflash it. But before I reflashed it I wanted to make sure it still worked. So i plugged it into the jetski and the check engine light came on right away which led me to believe the by warming the ecu changed the dielectric causing some sort of internal short or capacitance. I am very good with electronics and have tons of experience so I know i didnt burn the board with heat gun it was lightly warmed just to peal the potting off.

    This should have falling under a recall for HONDA or someone should open a class action lawsuit because there are literally millions of users having this issue and is being forced to buy a new ecu.

    FYI The vertical green ceramic board is a high precision amplifier used to read the knock sensor which is impossible to fix due to the laser tuned resistors. The vertical green ceramic board has a total of 16 connections

    1 - Connects to knock sensor on engine
    2 - GND
    3 - 100ohm - 12V pullup - 3.9k - 1k - GND
    4 - No Connect
    5 - No Connect
    6 - No Connect
    7 - Processor pin 111
    8 - No Connect
    9 - 5V
    10 - Processor pin 19
    11 - Processor pin 86
    12 - No Connect (It goes to J340 which is not populated. The other pad of J340 connects to GND)
    13 - Processor pin 141
    14 - GND
    15 - No Connect
    16 - Processor pin 20

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