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  1. #11
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home JR IN JAX's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by pucoa1 View Post
    Looks like possibly a battery tray spacer?
    Having owned a total of 4 F12Xs, I had ECM problems with all of them. The first ['02 bought in May '02] had a code 25 failure in 04 so I replaced with the '03 ECM with the leaner fuel map.

    All three of my '06s had ECM failures [bogus overheat alarms] and I replaced the first two ECMs but on the third I spent a couple of days to find the cause of the alarm. I determined it was a change in the impedance of the AI for the ECT or that the ECM was momentarily losing power and during the reboot was exceeding the persistence time for the ECT's AI, generating an Overheat alarm. I added an inline resistor to trim the temperature the ECM was seeing from the ECT. I also cleaned the main power connectors [mounted in the hull in front of the sub air box] that transfer power to the ECM from the battery. The ECM is powered from the rectifier with a backup from the battery through the hull connectors so a momentary power loss from the charging system would cause a reboot. Due to a lack of patience, I corrected both at the same time so I have no idea as to which fixed the problem.

    I have several long threads on my troubleshooting of the ECM overheating alarms.

    The code 25 knock sensor could either be an AI or a DI since the knock sensor is actually a microphone that is tuned to the ping frequency. This would make you think that it is an AI but the Microphone could be using signal processing to generate a DI signal to the ECM when the Ping frequency is present.

    Clear as mud?
    Honda Pilot NAVI
    F150 4x4
    3 '06 F12Xs
    CR250
    2 CR80s
    1 XR100
    2 PW50s
    1 Vento Phantom 150
    1 Honda SHI 150
    '98 Allison Grandsport/Merc 2.5 SS
    Jax. Fl.

    "Confidence is the feeling you have right before you fully understand the situation"

    "The automated aircraft of the future will have a crew of two; a pilot and a dog".
    The pilot is tasked with feeding the dog. The dog is to bite the pilot if he touches the controls.

    "Any ship can be a minesweeper,,, once".

  2. #12
    PWCToday Newbie
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Makes good sense! But I think you quoted the wrong person! I still have no idea what that thing is in my picture lol.

    I also cleaned the main power connectors
    Did the pins have any moisture on them?
    Last edited by Lej; 06-30-2016 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #13
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home JR IN JAX's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    No moisture on the connectors since I had coated them with silicone dielectric grease. The main power connector had some black gunk in it. There has been reference to the ECM failures being caused by moisture infiltration into the potted assembly.
    Honda Pilot NAVI
    F150 4x4
    3 '06 F12Xs
    CR250
    2 CR80s
    1 XR100
    2 PW50s
    1 Vento Phantom 150
    1 Honda SHI 150
    '98 Allison Grandsport/Merc 2.5 SS
    Jax. Fl.

    "Confidence is the feeling you have right before you fully understand the situation"

    "The automated aircraft of the future will have a crew of two; a pilot and a dog".
    The pilot is tasked with feeding the dog. The dog is to bite the pilot if he touches the controls.

    "Any ship can be a minesweeper,,, once".

  4. #14
    PWCToday Newbie
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    I also just cleaned mine and put some silicone grease on them. I ran it on the trailer for about 10 minutes just idling with no sign of code 25... But this code is so odd in the fact that it seems to be a heat issue, because once it first happens on a particular day, it comes back immediately unless it sits for a while.. I'm glad you mentioned that there's been talk of moisturizing entering the potting though. I am thinking about pulling my seat next time the code comes up and pulling the ECU out and seeing how warm it is..

    Any idea on what that little band is in my previous image?
    Last edited by Lej; 06-30-2016 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #15
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home JR IN JAX's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Maybe a battery band. I have always suspected the ECM problem was caused by heat in the engine bay so I have trimmed back the rubber isolation housing around the ECMs to expose as much of the ECM's housing to allow cooling. I have also removed the long black intake ducts on the cooling intakes to all of my skis since none of us are dumb enough to flip one over.
    Honda Pilot NAVI
    F150 4x4
    3 '06 F12Xs
    CR250
    2 CR80s
    1 XR100
    2 PW50s
    1 Vento Phantom 150
    1 Honda SHI 150
    '98 Allison Grandsport/Merc 2.5 SS
    Jax. Fl.

    "Confidence is the feeling you have right before you fully understand the situation"

    "The automated aircraft of the future will have a crew of two; a pilot and a dog".
    The pilot is tasked with feeding the dog. The dog is to bite the pilot if he touches the controls.

    "Any ship can be a minesweeper,,, once".

  6. #16
    PWCToday Newbie
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Okay a little more testing today. Out on the lake, 92F. Was working fine going 45 for about 15 mins. Decided to open it up to 60 and then come down to about 15 and got the code. Took my seat off instantly and felt how warm it was inside and if the ECU was hot. It was only warm, and I could leave my hand on the ecu with no discomfort. I cleared the code by pulling the lanyard and holding set and mode for 5 secs and had a fine ride back to the ramp (10 min) with no code. It's weird how it will always work for a while until it heats up. Are others experiences the same?

  7. #17
    Top Dog west_coaster's Avatar
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lej View Post
    Okay a little more testing today. Out on the lake, 92F. Was working fine going 45 for about 15 mins. Decided to open it up to 60 and then come down to about 15 and got the code. Took my seat off instantly and felt how warm it was inside and if the ECU was hot. It was only warm, and I could leave my hand on the ecu with no discomfort. I cleared the code by pulling the lanyard and holding set and mode for 5 secs and had a fine ride back to the ramp (10 min) with no code. It's weird how it will always work for a while until it heats up. Are others experiences the same?
    Curious, do you normally leave you ski with the battery hooked up when not using it?
    05 F-12X

    I'm on the drinking diet. I lost 2 days already.

  8. #18
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    This is my first ski that I've put about 40 hours on so far. I also read that article stating how "Your ski may only have 80 hours, but your ECM has been connected the whole time totaling 10,000 hours" etc etc. I'd like to think that isn't necessarily the case.. It's sort of like the fuel pump. When you first pull the button out to snap the landyard on, you hear the fuel pump prime, and I'd assume that's when the computer is then supplied power through some fuse/relay. Sure when you pull the lanyard out and kill the engine, the ski stays on for a few seconds before turning off the display.... and I'd like to think that after 5-10 minutes the ECU "times out" and is no longer being applied power until the button is re-pulled.... That's just my guess though as I haven't looked over how it's wired yet.. I really feel as if this is a heat related issue. I actually wired up 2 cpu fans (Not waterproof at all lol) to the ski's battery and put in inline switch/fuse. I zip typed them to the ECM and retested and managed to get 2 HARD driving hours out of the ski before getting the code... But I still am not sure on it. My new ECM should be coming in the mail tomorrow... so I'm not sure if there's to much I can do with the old one. I really want to try removing the potting but don't have much experience with that.
    Last edited by Lej; 07-05-2016 at 05:50 PM.

  9. #19
    PWCToday Regular
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Did u ever dig in to the old ECM?

  10. #20
    PWCToday Newbie
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    Re: Attempting to solve Code 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokey79 View Post
    Did u ever dig in to the old ECM?
    I did end up replacing my ECM with a new one and haven't seen the code since.... I still do have my old ECM sitting here in my shop on a shelf. I sent out a few emails to people who deal with potted components with no replies.. So I'd like to try and dive in once I get some time.. I just wish I had someone near me a little more experienced to guide me with getting it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by west_coaster View Post
    Curious, do you normally leave you ski with the battery hooked up when not using it?
    Only during the summer.. An inline switch would be smart though. I take it out in winter and trickle charge it though.
    Last edited by Lej; 06-05-2017 at 04:39 PM.

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