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  1. #1
    resident guru Midlake Crisis's Avatar
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    Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    This is for what it is worth for anyone buying from Mean_Green.

    10/1/14
    I purchased a used 62T/62T Ported Motor advertised as ready to run bored to 760, Modded Carbs, and FLAME Ignition from Mean_Green for $2000 cash. Seller was very cooperative, made what I thought was a great deal, and even went out of his way to deliver the motor to me at work since he was going to be in town for other reasons.
    Everything sat on my workbench through Winter, there are no excuses from me for not discovering the following issues sooner, with my schedule it just worked out that way.
    In February of this year I started checking everything out and immediately started running in to little things –missing studs on intake manifold, no flame arrestors, adaptor openings don’t match carb throat, no big deal but made me want to inspect things more closely. and I am glad I did. The internal damage I discovered was the last straw, so on 3/27/15 I sent him the following:

    3/27/15
    “I wanted to let you know that the motor you sold me was not usable.
    The crank had wet rust on the bottom of the bearings, as if it had been left sitting with salt water in the crank case, and one cylinder and piston had heavy scoring.
    The Flame ignition module also will not connect to the computer, even with a brand new data cable and software. Since I have no way of editing the timing curves or even knowing what curve is currently on it (assuming that it works at all) it is of little value if any.
    Would you let me know if you have any thoughts on making this right, or explaining your position on the situation?

    After many failed attempts to have a meaningful discussion about what he thought was fair under the circumstances I sent him the following message on 4/8/15:

    4/8/15
    “I have no desire to smear you but I also don't want to continue to be delayed or ignored, so I am going to cut my losses and take this to the feedback section of the forums if I don't hear back from you very soon.

    Any public feedback will acknowledge the pros and cons of the transaction, and my part in letting it sit on the bench so long before discovering the problems. I appreciated the delivery to Bakersfield very much, and the price seemed very good for what I expected to receive if it had been in working order and as described. On the other hand the items were not as described, and the difficulty with getting you to communicate with me about it are aggravating. I haven't tried to demand anything but have only asked you to either make things right or explain your side.
    Here are the issues that I think need to be addressed by you:

    1) The cylinder and piston damage and rust on the crank that you were either unaware of or did not disclose. I don't know when or who inspected it for you before the sale but contrary to your description I received a damaged motor.

    2) The bore is at 81mm, which is stock for a 701, not "bored over to760" as was described. Not a huge deal but why call it a 760?

    3) The FLAME ignition functionality - I have not installed it in a ski but itwill not connect to a computer for setting of timing curve. I have done the legwork on it, with extensive communication with ATP and even a thread onX-H2o. I have used a brand new cable and software, 4 different drivers, and 2 computers without success. This is an important function even if it does work (which is suspect, but I have no way of verifying at this point).

    One thing we agree on already is that $2k is a lot for either of us to have to eat. I am willing to return the FLAME and any or all of the rest of the parts to you for a fair price, or to hear whatever else you propose that you think would be fair.

    If you think it is fair for me to take the entire loss, please have the courtesy to say that directly, and if you give reasons why you think that is fair I will include them in any public feedback I leave.

    Please reply promptly, I need to get my Superjet on the water and can't make any moves on it until this issue is resolved. I don't want to eat it but if I do have to eat it I will describe fairly and accurately the entire ordeal for the rest of the forum members.

    Respectfully,”


    4/13/15
    Mean_Green responded initially by ignoring me, then delaying, making excuses for delays, then escalated to accusing me of lying, and finally cussing me out and telling me not to contact him anymore.
    This motor was stored inside my garage on has never even had a starter hooked up to it since I received it. It is in the exact condition that I got it from Mean_Green. The Flame ignition has not even been tried in a ski, but does not connect to the computer.

    I can’t read Mean_Green's mind or know for sure whether or not he knew about these issues, but his response has been ignoring, then disrespectful leading up to hostile, and I am left with a very expensive pile of parts to spend more money on to try and make them work, or maybe just completely start over.

    My fault for the delay, the rest is on Mean_Green.

    Regrets, and buyer beware.




  2. #2
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home PrickofMisery's Avatar
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    Re: Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    "One thing we agree on already is that $2k is a lot for either of us to have to eat."

    Only one person has to eat the $2K... and its not you. Besides he doesn't have to eat $2K, afterall he gets the engine back that he valued at $2K and you get a refund. The time thing adds a tricky element, but a "good seller" will take it in stride, make it right by the buyer and move on. Sorry to hear of this bad deal.

    How do I know....?
    Last edited by PrickofMisery; 04-13-2015 at 06:27 PM.

  3. #3
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
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    Re: Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    ... I'd be lacin' up my boots... but I guess you guys already know that. I don't know what to tell you regarding the time thing, but like Prick said, a good seller wouldn't care. Maybe you should see him in person??? It's a lot harder to lie to some one in person than by text or email.

    Bad things would happen to anyone who stiffed me for 2 grand. Sh!t happens, but again, he's not losing a dime, because he would get his "golden nugget" of a motor back.

    Post up this guys name and address.
    I'm only here to make you mad



    I'll tell your girl you said "hi".


  4. #4
    Frequent Poster kpino22's Avatar
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    UP Michigan
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    Re: Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    Wish I had seen this post a few weeks ago.I just bought a FPP from him and he neglected to tell me that the head pipe had been cracked and welded and that the a water screw was frozen and sheared off at the face. Not too happy about that. Its sad you have to worry about Sh$t like this

  5. #5
    PWCToday Newbie Mean_Green's Avatar
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    Fresno
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    Re: Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by Midlake Crisis View Post
    This is for what it is worth for anyone buying from Mean_Green.

    10/1/14
    I purchased a used 62T/62T Ported Motor advertised as ready to run bored to 760, Modded Carbs, and FLAME Ignition from Mean_Green for $2000 cash. Seller was very cooperative, made what I thought was a great deal, and even went out of his way to deliver the motor to me at work since he was going to be in town for other reasons.
    Everything sat on my workbench through Winter, there are no excuses from me for not discovering the following issues sooner, with my schedule it just worked out that way.
    In February of this year I started checking everything out and immediately started running in to little things –missing studs on intake manifold, no flame arrestors, adaptor openings don’t match carb throat, no big deal but made me want to inspect things more closely. and I am glad I did. The internal damage I discovered was the last straw, so on 3/27/15 I sent him the following:

    3/27/15
    “I wanted to let you know that the motor you sold me was not usable.
    The crank had wet rust on the bottom of the bearings, as if it had been left sitting with salt water in the crank case, and one cylinder and piston had heavy scoring.
    The Flame ignition module also will not connect to the computer, even with a brand new data cable and software. Since I have no way of editing the timing curves or even knowing what curve is currently on it (assuming that it works at all) it is of little value if any.
    Would you let me know if you have any thoughts on making this right, or explaining your position on the situation?

    After many failed attempts to have a meaningful discussion about what he thought was fair under the circumstances I sent him the following message on 4/8/15:

    4/8/15
    “I have no desire to smear you but I also don't want to continue to be delayed or ignored, so I am going to cut my losses and take this to the feedback section of the forums if I don't hear back from you very soon.

    Any public feedback will acknowledge the pros and cons of the transaction, and my part in letting it sit on the bench so long before discovering the problems. I appreciated the delivery to Bakersfield very much, and the price seemed very good for what I expected to receive if it had been in working order and as described. On the other hand the items were not as described, and the difficulty with getting you to communicate with me about it are aggravating. I haven't tried to demand anything but have only asked you to either make things right or explain your side.
    Here are the issues that I think need to be addressed by you:

    1) The cylinder and piston damage and rust on the crank that you were either unaware of or did not disclose. I don't know when or who inspected it for you before the sale but contrary to your description I received a damaged motor.

    2) The bore is at 81mm, which is stock for a 701, not "bored over to760" as was described. Not a huge deal but why call it a 760?

    3) The FLAME ignition functionality - I have not installed it in a ski but itwill not connect to a computer for setting of timing curve. I have done the legwork on it, with extensive communication with ATP and even a thread onX-H2o. I have used a brand new cable and software, 4 different drivers, and 2 computers without success. This is an important function even if it does work (which is suspect, but I have no way of verifying at this point).

    One thing we agree on already is that $2k is a lot for either of us to have to eat. I am willing to return the FLAME and any or all of the rest of the parts to you for a fair price, or to hear whatever else you propose that you think would be fair.

    If you think it is fair for me to take the entire loss, please have the courtesy to say that directly, and if you give reasons why you think that is fair I will include them in any public feedback I leave.

    Please reply promptly, I need to get my Superjet on the water and can't make any moves on it until this issue is resolved. I don't want to eat it but if I do have to eat it I will describe fairly and accurately the entire ordeal for the rest of the forum members.

    Respectfully,”


    4/13/15
    Mean_Green responded initially by ignoring me, then delaying, making excuses for delays, then escalated to accusing me of lying, and finally cussing me out and telling me not to contact him anymore.
    This motor was stored inside my garage on has never even had a starter hooked up to it since I received it. It is in the exact condition that I got it from Mean_Green. The Flame ignition has not even been tried in a ski, but does not connect to the computer.

    I can’t read Mean_Green's mind or know for sure whether or not he knew about these issues, but his response has been ignoring, then disrespectful leading up to hostile, and I am left with a very expensive pile of parts to spend more money on to try and make them work, or maybe just completely start over.

    My fault for the delay, the rest is on Mean_Green.

    Regrets, and buyer beware.
    This is a copy paste from my response on the X.

    I had a ski that had a motor that ripped. There are many people that can vouch how well the motor ran. In fact it was just tuned professionally at Ski Clinic. Just before selling I even inspected the motor again and me and my roommate were surprised how good it still looked on the inside considering I was riding all summer. Upon selling the motor I even included free parts. Including the ATP flame ignition that came with another motor I purchased. Then many months later he made contact...

    now this post says I was ignoring and putting off... The very first day he had a problem I was genuinely surprised and immediately responded with the quoted below the very SAME DAY. I even included my phone number because I had nothing to hide and wanted to figure out the problem and help. After numerous messages and texts it became apparent I was being had. The story did not add up and I was being shaken down. With the threats being made my way and blatant disrespect I decided to cease communicating and asked to not be contacted again.

    "This is unreal. That motor not only was recently built. But also gone through ski clinic and tuned just a month prior to selling. I ran it flawless and it had zero problems. I had even pulled the head to take pictures of it before I sold it to send to somone that flaked out and we were impressed how clean it actually was.

    The ignition system I purchased with my new motor and I never used it? I know my pick up was faulty on my other flame and they warrantied it for me.

    I am kind of at a loss about the motor though. I really can not comprehend how this is possible. Did it sit outside during the winter months? Then did you crank it before popping the head? Because I know for a fact their was no scoring in that motor at all when sold and it cycled flawless.

    Email them about the flame for troubleshooting but it should be fine.

    Call me later tonight when your home. I in no way tried to burn you I was giving a dope deal on a fresh set up. I just came into a superjet hull and was kicking myself wishing I had kept it.

    559-***-****"

    I do not plan on responding to this thread again as I have gone back and forth with Midlake more then I should have aloud trying to make things better. I am done with it.

  6. #6
    PWCToday Newbie Mean_Green's Avatar
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    Fresno
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    Re: Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by PrickofMisery View Post
    "One thing we agree on already is that $2k is a lot for either of us to have to eat."

    Only one person has to eat the $2K... and its not you. Besides he doesn't have to eat $2K, afterall he gets the engine back that he valued at $2K and you get a refund. The time thing adds a tricky element, but a "good seller" will take it in stride, make it right by the buyer and move on. Sorry to hear of this bad deal.

    How do I know....?
    Yes the motor I sold summer that operated perfect and is documented running is now bad THIS beginning summer. I posted how fast I was trying to help. SAME DAY. Midlakes story didn't add up and avoided answering where the motor was stored during the cold winter wet months then finally said it was inside on a work bench. Their was not one thing wrong with this motor. The Flame ignition I GAVE him for FREE with the motor along with a stock chargin wheel as well was purchased used by me and never used on my skis. I lost 1000 on that. On top of everything I drove all the way down and hand delivered the whole set up to Bakersfield. If you think the 2k is still sitting in my account then your mistaken. If this guy had a problem with anything other then him leaving a motor outside to rot and let me know at all in a timely manner I would have refunded and taken it back. But all these months later after ruining my motor and the way he communicated I have nothing left to offer. I even asked for paypal at one point and was ganna see what I could buy back to help but he wouldn't have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whazguude View Post
    ... I'd be lacin' up my boots... but I guess you guys already know that. I don't know what to tell you regarding the time thing, but like Prick said, a good seller wouldn't care. Maybe you should see him in person??? It's a lot harder to lie to some one in person than by text or email.

    Bad things would happen to anyone who stiffed me for 2 grand. Sh!t happens, but again, he's not losing a dime, because he would get his "golden nugget" of a motor back.

    Post up this guys name and address.
    Given you have such little info on the sale I think you should grow up before egging on such nonsense. My name is Baylen. I stand behind that this was a good sale.

    If you have a ski that rips. You are ready to go bigger. You sell your motor with 1 season on it that ran perfect and buy the new one then next year the guy comes back and wants a refund then what would you do? Now add on that the motor was even just professionally tuned and I even went through it just a week prior to sale as well as purchased extra domes for it for the sale. I lost money on the initial sale trying to free up cash yet alone now.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpino22 View Post
    Wish I had seen this post a few weeks ago.I just bought a FPP from him and he neglected to tell me that the head pipe had been cracked and welded and that the a water screw was frozen and sheared off at the face. Not too happy about that. Its sad you have to worry about Sh$t like this
    .

    I posted a ton of pics and labeled accordingly. I never false advertised that head pipe I sold for cheap. I even got it to you pretty fast and paid 90 bucks in extra shipping.



    But now that that is addressed on this Negative feedback section for a sale that didn't even take place on this forum. I am done talking about it. I have spent HOURS talking about this already with midlake and am over it. The friends that ride with me and helped me work on this motor were surprised I was even trying and responding as I was. I bet if I purchased even a 20k used car and it drive great and worked perfect then came back a summer later saying the tranny was blown but I swear it has been parked and not used or abused in any way. What would you do? Even a dealership would say.... well.... sorry.

  7. #7
    resident guru Midlake Crisis's Avatar
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    Re: Mean_Green - Negligent or Fraudulent description, very bad follow up

    You didn't spend hours, you spent weeks delaying, denying, and ultimately disrespecting and insulting me. You never once told me what you thought would be a fair resolution of the dispute until your last message in which you told me I was lying and to F#&^$ myself. All of my correspondence with you was and continues to be respectful. The bottom line is you either knew about the damaged cylinder and non working condition of the FLAME or you didn't. But when you were notified about it you chose to take no responsibility for either one, you got paid and that apparently is all that matters to you. You can make up stories about me leaving stuff in the rain, etc. but I know what I got from you and where it sat until I opened it up and discovered the damage.

    As for the FLAME, it was definitely not "free", if you recall it was part of the negotiated $2000 package.


    Copies of correspondence is available for anyone who might be considering sending Mean_Green any of their money, please send me a PM if needed.




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