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  1. #11
    PWCToday Newbie
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    Hi guyz im new here. If i want a copper gasket on the top cover do i have to change both the gaskets to copper? Is there a certain way of fitting a copper gasket? I read somewer tht u supposed to heat it @ a certain temp fr sum time? Finaly does the expandin of the copper due to heat gonna affect my pisstons?

  2. #12
    Frequent Poster chargerman's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    Quote Originally Posted by ZX6R
    Hi guyz im new here. If i want a copper gasket on the top cover do i have to change both the gaskets to copper? Is there a certain way of fitting a copper gasket? I read somewer tht u supposed to heat it @ a certain temp fr sum time? Finaly does the expandin of the copper due to heat gonna affect my pisstons?
    Copper gaskets can be reused/re-expanded by anealing them...very carefully heating them up till glowing a dull red, then toss some cold water on them. If you mean using a copper head gasket, you don't have to use a copper base gasket(do they even make copper base gaskets?) Copper head gaskets are nice because if you know how to properly aneal them, they can be used over and over. Copper gaskets won't effect your pistons. Well.....unless your bored way oversize, you may need to "Trim" a bit around the combustion chamber sealing edge.
    Last edited by chargerman; 01-03-2008 at 10:13 AM.
    Best Regards Chargerman

    My Machine...1988 X2 bored .50 over.....15.5 Skat Trak ..... Mariner exhaust.....Dual Mikuni's on Westcoast manifolds.....Bad Bones reed blocks with stuffers and 2 stage Boysen reeds.....PJS toploader intake grate.....Rule electric bilge pump...Jet Dynamics concave ride plate .. Whats next?


  3. #13
    Top Dog hilljt's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    Yes, copper base gaskets are made.......believe gordy has some on fleabay. Someone was slumming to dig up this thread! At least he is actually looking through old threads for info!!!!!

  4. #14
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home MrSki's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    Quote Originally Posted by chargerman
    Quote Originally Posted by ZX6R
    Hi guyz im new here. If i want a copper gasket on the top cover do i have to change both the gaskets to copper? Is there a certain way of fitting a copper gasket? I read somewer tht u supposed to heat it @ a certain temp fr sum time? Finaly does the expandin of the copper due to heat gonna affect my pisstons?
    Copper gaskets can be reused/re-expanded by anealing them...very carefully heating them up till glowing a dull red, then toss some cold water on them. If you mean using a copper head gasket, you don't have to use a copper base gasket(do they even make copper base gaskets?) Copper head gaskets are nice because if you know how to properly aneal them, they can be used over and over. Copper gaskets won't effect your pistons. Well.....unless your bored way oversize, you may need to "Trim" a bit around the combustion chamber sealing edge.
    That's pretty funny. You don't know how to anneal properly so why are you telling him what to do.

    Copper anneals between 200-750 C (392-1382F) and melts at 1080C (1976F).

    Getting it red hot is just below the melting point, totally unneccessary, and can only be acheived with a blow torch for most garage mechanics. I don't know anyone with a vacuum furnace in their garage. Take a blow torch to a .02" head or base gasket and you'll see how fast it will flame away.

    And throwing cold water on a hot metal is called quenching it. It's a hardening process, not annealing. But for copper it actually doesn't matter too much because the only way to harden copper is to cold work it...quenching really has no effect.

    Typically, a slow, controlled temperature drop back down to ambient is the best way to fully anneal a metal.

    What I tell people is to place the gasket in their kitchen oven (don't tell the wife) and crank it up as high as it will go. After about 20 minutes shut it off and come back in a couple hours once it's cooled. You may get 500-550 F, maybe not a full anneal, but about the best we can do at home.

    And as far as copper base gaskets, they have been around since about the time of the dinosaurs...or when ever internal combustion engines were first developed.
    1993 Laser Jet F15 - Mild port to PJS Cylinder.
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    1992 550 SX - PJS Secret Weapon Big Bore, Kind of fast, LOL.
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  5. #15
    Frequent Poster chargerman's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    I've been anealing copper gaskets my whole life "Mrski", and never ruined one, furthermore...people were anealing copper gaskets long before vaccum furnaces were used to do so. But then you do know it all correct?
    Best Regards Chargerman

    My Machine...1988 X2 bored .50 over.....15.5 Skat Trak ..... Mariner exhaust.....Dual Mikuni's on Westcoast manifolds.....Bad Bones reed blocks with stuffers and 2 stage Boysen reeds.....PJS toploader intake grate.....Rule electric bilge pump...Jet Dynamics concave ride plate .. Whats next?


  6. #16
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home MrSki's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    Quote Originally Posted by chargerman
    I've been anealing copper gaskets my whole life "Mrski", and never ruined one, furthermore...people were anealing copper gaskets long before vaccum furnaces were used to do so. But then you do know it all correct?
    I know quenching has nothing to do with annealing...

    Regardless...I hope the poster got a little more from my post as to his practiacal application of the theory. I'm just trying to help.
    1993 Laser Jet F15 - Mild port to PJS Cylinder.
    1992 Laser Jet F14 - Raced in 1992 World Finals.
    1992 550 SX - PJS Secret Weapon Big Bore, Kind of fast, LOL.
    1989 JS 550 - PJS motor Dual 46's, 50 MPH on GPS.
    1989 Wet Jet - Upgraded 1994 50 HP motor & exhaust. 45 MPH, yee ha!
    1986 JS 550 - Engine built. Working on fiberglass!
    1976 JS 400 - Pretty much just a shell. Sure want to restore this some day!

  7. #17
    Frequent Poster chargerman's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    Perhaps I should clarify ....quenching with water is just to cool it off faster... a .020 copper gasket would probably be better suited to the kitchen oven for anealing, as my standard handheld benzomatic propane torch I use for anealing might be a bit too much. Furthermore....I don't heat the copper to the melting point, or even to the point where it glows red hot. However...I have used my benzomatic to successfully aneal .5mm hammered copper shielding, to make it more pliable, to be used as noise shielding in the control cavities of Gibson electric guitars. The only real advantage I can see to a vacumm oven, would be to pull any impurities out of the copper? Just trying to be helpfull also
    Best Regards Chargerman

    My Machine...1988 X2 bored .50 over.....15.5 Skat Trak ..... Mariner exhaust.....Dual Mikuni's on Westcoast manifolds.....Bad Bones reed blocks with stuffers and 2 stage Boysen reeds.....PJS toploader intake grate.....Rule electric bilge pump...Jet Dynamics concave ride plate .. Whats next?


  8. #18
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    I allways use a spray-on copper gasket sealant...makes a real good sticky seal and is high temp resistance. Never any leaks.

  9. #19
    Resident Guru Motorheads5's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    [quote=Super Dee]I will probably use no sealant for this rebuild based on the majority of comments. I didn't use it last time I rebuilt it. I noticed a little bit of seapage from the water jackets, but nothing that ever caused any problems. I just thought if I put some high temp. gasoline resistant sealant on there it might help out against it possibly happening again.

    I guess I'll just put it on dry like last time. Thanks for all the advice 8)[/quot


    What you saw with seapage sometimes can be expected we are talking about part's that are almost 20 year's old I guess my thought is I inspect the part's, yeah a feeler guage and a dry fit ect. but, using high temp red silicone will not hurt a thing.
    Last edited by Motorheads5; 11-27-2008 at 12:04 AM.
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  10. #20
    Top Dog Kawi550Racer's Avatar
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    Re: To use head gasket sealant or not

    i use the copper gasket sealer in a tube. it lets you apply more liberaly and when it seeps out you can shave it off or just leave it. shows there is a good seal. but thats for the cases. for the head i would only use 1211 sealer on a super clean head and cylinder surface. i wouldnt use the copper spray gasket on the head. first of all makes a mess of everything and it isnt very thin even when compressed by the head. the 1211 can be aplied very thin by a finger and will make a perfect seal. and its virtually not even there so its like haveing no head gasket thickness.
    working my way into a gp1300r. if you want to lend me some tips i would love the help
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