"Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build
pxctoday

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» Find OEM Parts

» Jobs

» wallpapers

Page 1 of 43 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 426
  1. #1
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago / Portage, MI
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,587

    "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    First to get it out of the way- since I've added a black pole bracket to my ski it reminds me of a cardinal. Enough said.

    This past weekend my skill finally reached the limit of my 550's performance. I'm getting better at carving and the limited 550 set up just doesn't have the power to pull me out sometimes. I need to always stay in the powerband of the pipe, which is annoying if I'm just cruising around having fun. Plus the excellent throttle response on some of our newer skis is really spoiling me. This piston port flat out sucks with a 44sbn.

    So, following in JSNate's footsteps on his "Ugly Red" build, I'm going to give this ski a good dose of powwaahhh. Amazingly I had a lot of the big parts sitting around.

    750 small pin
    dual Keihins or single 44sbn
    650 factory pipe
    sxr ignition box with ss xi ignition guts
    VForce 1 reeds or stock reeds
    550 coupler off an old piston port
    Plenty of misc parts
    enough gaskets to rule the universe

    Over a 12 hour period I purchased the following parts. Now I just need to wait for them to arrive!
    Conversion plate
    650 PJS pipe (I'll start with this pipe)
    Another 650 manifold (found one I forgot I had this afternoon, sheesh).
    19 deg repitched JS550 impeller from Impros
    38mm Keihin
    38mm Keihin manifold
    Head gasket and crank seals
    Misc Keihin jets
    Probably some stuff I forgot

    Depending how I like the conversion, this winter I'd plan on taking this build a stage further by rebuilding the engine, adding a Kommander head, 46 or 48mm Novi carb, Advent ignition, and 650 factory pipe.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  2. #2
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago / Portage, MI
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,587

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    First step, make another block off rubber plate from 1/8" Nitrile rubber. Its thick enough to withstand the pressure of a leakdown test.

    While I was at it, I took some fine scotchbrite pads to the gasket surfaces. They came out really good. Surface finish is probably only slightly worse than new, and certainly smoother and flatter than they were.

    I am going to send my small pin 750 head to a friend to get the outside media blasted and powder coated a crinkle black. In the mean time, I've got an 800 head sitting on it. I think the compression would be only a bit lower if I used that head, based on the following info:

    http://www.pwctoday.com/f56/kawasaki...ads-70664.html
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 07-25-2011 at 11:03 PM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  3. #3
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home cavemanX2650's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Austin TX
    Age
    31
    Posts
    14,376

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    man im sorry to tell you this , but your probably not going to like the way that ski handles with the 750 ,..


    if your looking for a buoy killer//carve ski ,.. then i highly suggest a 650 insted ,..

    a 750 is too heavy and has too much TQ for that small hull ,.. makes it damn near impossible to ride IMO ,.. plus with a 550 pump its seriously alot of wasted power

    a 650 setup is just as fast and handles light years better than it will with a 750 ,now thats not to say you cant re learn how to ride it cause im sure you can ,.. but you wont enjoy trying to carve if thats what you like to do ,it will either fall over , sub , or rip out of your hands cause it has so much power ,lol


    but if you just want a freeride ski then have fun cause their insane with that much power !!! !
    Last edited by cavemanX2650; 07-25-2011 at 11:15 PM.


  4. #4
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago / Portage, MI
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,587

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    To each his own opinion of course, but I disagree with you on about every point.

    Perhaps most importantly, I don't consider a single carb 750 is pushing this hull. It will make maybe 70hp with the PJS pipe. Well under probably every 550 that ever raced in the pro circuit.

    Just between my brother and I we've got everything from a 550 thru a sxr. I'm experienced with every hull type and I know the limitations of each. Quite frankly I have a sxr and sxi pro at my disposal and if I want to ride something newer I can always go for those skis.

    When I get to work I'll write a bigger response.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  5. #5
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago / Portage, MI
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,587

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Why would a 650 engine weigh more than a 750? I have trouble believing handling will be worse due to added weight of a 750 over a 650. But if you've weighed your engines I'd like to know! Additionally Jammer himself used to say that he would fiberglass in 8-10lbs of led (if my memory is correct) into the hull up by the tank. So this shows a little extra weight is beneficial. JSNate actually thought carving improved on his ski as a result of the slightly heavier nose. I would tend to agree, since I've already got to cut power to drop the nose in some turns.

    About the JS pump, this story has been discussed over and over. The 550 pump is fine given the RPM that the 750 will be operating in. I will not touch a 440 pump because I believe its an inferior piece from an engineering standpoint as far as durability and because its better suited to a high rpm application.

    Read this thread and listen to FOG, JSNate, and MrSki. They answer quite difinitively some of the concerns you raise.

    http://www.pwctoday.com/f21/ugly-red...-306679-3.html

    I personally believe a ~65-70hp 550 will not make too much difference over a ~60hp 650. Either way I think its a difference I can get used to. Its all about being smooth with delivering the power.

    Have you tried a 550/750 before? Please don't take offense, but I trust those three guys more. JSNate and FOG have been very upfront and honest with their builds. If you have first hand experience then I would listen of course. As we all know there are plenty of arm chair guys on this website with their own oppinions who've never actually set foot on the ski they speak of.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 07-26-2011 at 07:59 AM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  6. #6
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago / Portage, MI
    Age
    38
    Posts
    3,587

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    With a nod to "Ugly Red", this ski shall be rechristened "Pretty Red".

    All the parts I need are in transit or the orders are processing. I'm excited to wrench on the ski. This weekend shall be the last time out with a 550!
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  7. #7
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home JSNate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,221

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Subscribed.. Good luck with the build! I am looking forward to following this thread.

  8. #8
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home cavemanX2650's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Austin TX
    Age
    31
    Posts
    14,376

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Quote Originally Posted by theVetteman3 View Post
    I'm experienced with every hull type and I know the limitations of each. .

    no , you obviously do not



    Quote Originally Posted by theVetteman3 View Post
    Why would a 650 engine weigh more than a 750? I have trouble believing handling will be worse due to added weight of a 750 over a 650. But if you've weighed your engines I'd like to know! Additionally Jammer himself used to say that he would fiberglass in 8-10lbs of led (if my memory is correct) into the hull up by the tank. So this shows a little extra weight is beneficial. JSNate actually thought carving improved on his ski as a result of the slightly heavier nose. I would tend to agree, since I've already got to cut power to drop the nose in some turns.

    About the JS pump, this story has been discussed over and over. The 550 pump is fine given the RPM that the 750 will be operating in. I will not touch a 440 pump because I believe its an inferior piece from an engineering standpoint as far as durability and because its better suited to a high rpm application.

    Read this thread and listen to FOG, JSNate, and MrSki. They answer quite difinitively some of the concerns you raise.

    http://www.pwctoday.com/f21/ugly-red...-306679-3.html

    I personally believe a ~65-70hp 550 will not make too much difference over a ~60hp 650. Either way I think its a difference I can get used to. Its all about being smooth with delivering the power.

    Have you tried a 550/750 before? Please don't take offense, but I trust those three guys more. JSNate and FOG have been very upfront and honest with their builds. If you have first hand experience then I would listen of course. As we all know there are plenty of arm chair guys on this website with their own oppinions who've never actually set foot on the ski they speak of.

    Yes i have built a 550/650, AND a 550/750 ,.. i have been there and done that , not just flat water riding either i actually put my stuff on the race track ,. i have cold hard facts to backup what im saying

    the extra weight , power and TQ of the 750 makes a huge difference on the way it makes the ski handle ,. you think im full of sh*t then see for yourself ,..

    the reason Jammer was so fast was because he had a LIGHT machine that was very powerfull on top but had fairly low TQ so it didnt throw the ski around everywhere ,.


    you think the 550 pump will be ok ?

    i have one of the steepest pump setups you can build out of a 550 and without a doubt the 750 is WAY too much power for that tiny pump ,...

    you CANNOT pin the throttle under 30mph or it will slam against the rev limiter and just cavitate ,.. and once it does hook up it wants to rip out of your hands ,.. that is by far one of the WORST setups to have for carving ,.like i said ,been there done that


    get the ski running and try it out , then report back with a honest answer ,.. i dont want a report from a flat water lake ride , .. go out on a track and carve some buoys with other riders who know what their doing ,.. then try to tell me how much you know about the limitations of a Js hull




    look ill put it as simple as this ,. first day i raced with my 550/750 i finished last every moto because i just could not ride the ski ,.. then the 2nd day i rode a bone stock x2 ,.. and ended up getting a 2nd and 1st place finish




    how was i able to go faster on a 38mph X2 compared to my 50 mph js ?


    bigger isnt always better my friend ,.. i learned the hard way


  9. #9
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home JSNate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,221

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    After riding JS hulls in conditions ranging from the Pacific Ocean, the Great Lakes and yes, flat water lakes.. I can only speak from experience of thrity years of riding. My JS with the 750 has none of the limitations you mention.

    Also, I run a bouy course on my flat water lake on a regular basis. At times, the chop is big and very much like when I raced back in the 80's. I can honestly say this ski handles the chop about the same way. However, it does it with much more power and it in no way seems near the pumps limitations. In fact, I plan on adding more power in small steps to squeeze all I can from this engine. One of the reasons I enjoy the JS hull so much is because it takes a lot of skill to ride it effectively. I along with a lot of people building these conversion skis probably will not race them. Most, I assume are building fun and powerful recreational machines.

    Please excuse my opinion as you may not find me qualified to give an "honest" assesment of how a ski performs.
    Last edited by JSNate; 07-27-2011 at 12:32 AM.

  10. #10

    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    What is your goal here? If you do want a buoy boat a conversion ski is not the answer. What you need is a 550 reed motor with the right work done to it. If you want to carve, be nimble and go fast then a lightly modded 550 reed can do wonders and it won't be a PITA to own. If you want to go past light modding a 550 reed is still better. My worked 550 reed SPANKS my 650 coversion around the buoy course and it's not even dailed to where I want it. I'm still trying to figure out the damn thing. My 650 conversion is no slouch either and far from a stock 650.

Page 1 of 43 12311 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0