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  1. #11
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Rowdy I never said I wanted a buoy boat. One of my next builds will be a sxi pro. I've gotten used to the handling of that ski and it is considerably better at any sort of buoy stuff. I want a 550 with more power. Since I have (key word, have) the engine and a good portion of the parts needed I'm going to give this build a try.

    Quite frankly I trust JSNate and FOG and I want to see what a 550/750 will feel like. I want more power, and sometimes I just need a ski that scares the pants off me sometimes. Plus there is always the thrill in taking something like this and improving it as much as you can to be acceptable.

    I firmly believe that all of these older skis take riders of exceptional skill to get anywhere near a sxi pro or sxr. I view my 550 as a interesting recreational ski but I don't plan on racing.

    Just for reference, a good 550 reed motor would cost similar to the total money I have in this conversion, minus the prop. And then I'd still need a ebox, reed pipe, prop, good carb, manifolds.. it just goes on. And then no doubt I'd have to rebuild the engine because its been sitting since 1994 or something. But someday I probably will build a 550 reed the way I want.

    Right now I want power to pull me out of turns and have fun with. Enough said.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 07-27-2011 at 07:04 AM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  2. #12
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Quote Originally Posted by cavemanX2650 View Post
    no , you obviously do not






    Yes i have built a 550/650, AND a 550/750 ,.. i have been there and done that , not just flat water riding either i actually put my stuff on the race track ,. i have cold hard facts to backup what im saying

    the extra weight , power and TQ of the 750 makes a huge difference on the way it makes the ski handle ,. you think im full of sh*t then see for yourself ,..

    the reason Jammer was so fast was because he had a LIGHT machine that was very powerfull on top but had fairly low TQ so it didnt throw the ski around everywhere ,.


    you think the 550 pump will be ok ?

    i have one of the steepest pump setups you can build out of a 550 and without a doubt the 750 is WAY too much power for that tiny pump ,...

    you CANNOT pin the throttle under 30mph or it will slam against the rev limiter and just cavitate ,.. and once it does hook up it wants to rip out of your hands ,.. that is by far one of the WORST setups to have for carving ,.like i said ,been there done that


    get the ski running and try it out , then report back with a honest answer ,.. i dont want a report from a flat water lake ride , .. go out on a track and carve some buoys with other riders who know what their doing ,.. then try to tell me how much you know about the limitations of a Js hull




    look ill put it as simple as this ,. first day i raced with my 550/750 i finished last every moto because i just could not ride the ski ,.. then the 2nd day i rode a bone stock x2 ,.. and ended up getting a 2nd and 1st place finish




    how was i able to go faster on a 38mph X2 compared to my 50 mph js ?


    bigger isnt always better my friend ,.. i learned the hard way

    Ok now we are getting somewhere, thanks for posting some information.

    Right away, as far as cavitation and spinning the prop goes, race skis back in the day were very similar. I was just reading last night an article about Chris Fischetti's mod 550 that he beat Jeff Jacobs on in what like 91ish? The ski was very difficult to ride, its part of the challenge. Perhaps I'll scan and post the article. It was in a PWI, I believe they estimated the ski to be in the mid 50s.

    Your comment on the torque is valid. This engine will have a good amount of torque. But I think with the way the old pro 550 race skis were set up, they had a very abrupt power delivery as well and most of the battle was controlling the throttle. That's one of the reasons they were so good.

    Just for my reference, what impeller were you running on your ski when you had a 750? What was your set up?
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  3. #13
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home cavemanX2650's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Quote Originally Posted by theVetteman3 View Post
    Ok now we are getting somewhere, thanks for posting some information.

    Right away, as far as cavitation and spinning the prop goes, race skis back in the day were very similar. I was just reading last night an article about Chris Fischetti's mod 550 that he beat Jeff Jacobs on in what like 91ish? The ski was very difficult to ride, its part of the challenge. Perhaps I'll scan and post the article. It was in a PWI, I believe they estimated the ski to be in the mid 50s.

    Your comment on the torque is valid. This engine will have a good amount of torque. But I think with the way the old pro 550 race skis were set up, they had a very abrupt power delivery as well and most of the battle was controlling the throttle. That's one of the reasons they were so good.

    Just for my reference, what impeller were you running on your ski when you had a 750? What was your set up?


    750sp lightly ported ,. 40mm carbs WC pipe & waterbox,.skat trak 19* impeller , PJS toploader intake grate with a bored nozzle ,.Rend rideplate ,.. it will outrun a stock class SXR if you can keep it in the water




    in one of your first post here you said that you like to carve corners and just need something to pull you out of the corner better ,.thats why i took it like you was saying you wanted to build a carving ski


    when it comes to building these custom skis you must remember newtons 3 laws of motion


    the extra stroke length , and heavier crank and flywheel of the 750 creates alot more spinning inertia , which highly effects the way the ski handles since the motor is bolted directly to the hull


    added weight VS added weight & inertia is two very different things

    same concept as back in the late 60's when people had 454's in a chevelles, ect .them cars were good for one thing only , going fast as hell in a straight line ,.then take a look at how the Trans Am series was run and the cars that were in it , for example,.. the AAR 340ci Cuda ,.. that car would kill a 426 hemi around corners


    at the races i tryed out a Mod 550sx which has been GPS'd at 49mph ,.. i LOVED the way it handled and it was fast, but it didnt want to rip your arms off like my 750JS,..and i could actually lay the 550 flat and corner it ,.. something that is extremely hard to do with the 750 ,.like i said ive built both skis and without a doubt the 650 was more fun to ride and had more useable power , and was still just as fast


    but like i said if you just want a freeride ski then more power to ya , stick the 750 in and enjoy
    Last edited by cavemanX2650; 07-27-2011 at 12:27 PM.


  4. #14
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home monster 550's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    I'll subscribe as I'm curious to hear how everyone's conversions go. No offense to Nate, FOG or Cavey, but build the ski for you and don't stick with one persons advice. I love Nates build, but I don't agree with all of his approaches and built the best ski for me. That being said doesn't mean Nates ski isn't the best or going to be the best ski for him when it's done. I'm running a 650 that's anything but stock and a 17p prop in a bored/blueprinted pump with bored reduction nozzle that few have told me won't work, I tried for myself and it works great. I almost went with a js pump for the ease of maintenance, but after reading and searching the pros/cons, I stuck with what I wanted for me, not caring what other people wanted. I have to say the worse thing about my ski is jumping, it just feels so hard to launch compared to 550's. Mine planes perfect and I didn't add weight up front other than the motor, in fact I lost as much weight as I could. I run an aluminum bedplate, lexan hood and fcv set at 1/4 throttle to keep the waterbox dry. All in all, build the ski for you while listening to everyone's opinions and making your own.

  5. #15
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home BLRider's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Quote Originally Posted by monster 550 View Post
    I'll subscribe as I'm curious to hear how everyone's conversions go. No offense to Nate, FOG or Cavey, but build the ski for you and don't stick with one persons advice. I love Nates build, but I don't agree with all of his approaches and built the best ski for me. That being said doesn't mean Nates ski isn't the best or going to be the best ski for him when it's done. I'm running a 650 that's anything but stock and a 17p prop in a bored/blueprinted pump with bored reduction nozzle that few have told me won't work, I tried for myself and it works great. I almost went with a js pump for the ease of maintenance, but after reading and searching the pros/cons, I stuck with what I wanted for me, not caring what other people wanted. I have to say the worse thing about my ski is jumping, it just feels so hard to launch compared to 550's. Mine planes perfect and I didn't add weight up front other than the motor, in fact I lost as much weight as I could. I run an aluminum bedplate, lexan hood and fcv set at 1/4 throttle to keep the waterbox dry. All in all, build the ski for you while listening to everyone's opinions and making your own.
    Well put Monster, even current ski's are built to suit the rider so why not gather all of the advice/opinions of others that already did some of the mods and apply them as desired/needed.
    Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  6. #16
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home monster 550's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    BL I forgot to mention your ski sorry. I was too deep into it lol. I will also add that I didn't like my ski at first and my wife hated it, but now we both enjoy taking turns on it and getting more ride time with it. The best part of these builds in my opinion is finishing them. You'll get frustrated at least a handful of times but in the end there's nothing like the satisfaction of building your own ski.

  7. #17
    Top Dog N2 H20's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Quote Originally Posted by monster 550 View Post
    You'll get frustrated at least a handful of times but in the end there's nothing like the satisfaction of building your own ski.
    Got that right...especially the frustrated part lol

  8. #18
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home theVetteman3's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    Thanks for all the input guys, I absolutely respect each and every opinion, even if I don't agree with it. And BL your philosopy is exactly what I'm aiming for. Get as much feedback as possible and then you can make the best decisions.

    First of all this ski will be for fun carving, not necessarily any sort of competitive riding. So any buoy chasing will be done strictly for my own enjoyment. That said, perhaps eventually I will go the modded 550 reed route. I kick myself daily for not jumping on a low hour '95 reed engine which was on here for sale during the winter.

    Cavey, you posted some good info. Your set up sounds hotter than what I will be running. A dual carb small pin, lightly ported, with a pipe will start to wake up a 750 for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if your engine had 80-90hp depending on the porting. My ski with a single 38mm and a pipe might be 65-70. I forget if FOG used a single or dual on his son's ski. Perhaps that right there is the difference between your experience and the other guys. If Nate was running a 19 pitch in his single carb, then yours would need to be steeper by a lot. In fact, first thing I'm going to do is see what compression I've got with a stock 800 head. Originally the engine was 165, with the 1-2cc dome size increase it should lower compression and therefore torque. We'll see.

    This will be a challenging build from a handling perspective, to get the ski to suit my style. I can promise I'll be up front and honest. And if I don't like it in the 550, then I can always swap a reed 550 in, or put this 750 in my 650sx, and put the 650 in my 550.

    Thanks again for all the advice and input guys. I am really excited for this build.
    Last edited by theVetteman3; 07-27-2011 at 01:59 PM.
    1985 JS550/800 "Pretty Red": Newmiller 800, Rhaas 750 pump conv. [56.3mph gps]
    2009 1100 SJ:
    Kawi 1100 build in progress
    2009 SJ MINT:
    KP steering adaptor, Worx 228 intake, PWR ride plate [47.3mph gps]
    1987 WJ650:
    6M6, JD Intake Grate, 17/20, Coffmans Sizzler [48.5mph gps]
    1994 XiR: 830cc Superstock, PJS side draft, 13/18 swirl [53.7mph gps]
    1995 SJ MINT:
    Worx 205 intake [42.5mph gps]



  9. #19
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home monster 550's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    I doubt Cavey's getting anywhere near 80-90hp out of a sp that's only 63hp stock, maybe out of a 75hp bp, but horsepower's only good when used right. From my experience with my 650 conversion ski, the riders weight, height and riding style play a great role in how it rides and handles. If I gun mine from the shore standing up it'll hop up and unload the pump before it hits peak rpm's and planes, but when I start from a knee and quickly stand up it seems like the same way when my wife starts standing up only it's a little more quicker out of the hole with me who's 175lbs compared to my 105 wife. She can go faster in a straight line and doesn't sink the ski as much in slow turns where I get all of the torque out of the 17p. If I built it for her I'd definitley go up to a 19 or even 20 which would give her more bottom end, but I would lose it and gain top end if I rode it. I'm also 6' compared to her 5'5" and I'm running a 650sx quicksteer and pivot bolt giving the steering -2" so I can't ride straight for too long and I handle it completely different. My wife and I aren't the only people who's ridden it either, two of our buddy's and my buddy's wife rode it and it seems to handle different for all. Of course that's with any ski, but it's a lot more noticable than when say all of us compare each other on my buddy's 750sxi-pro.

  10. #20
    Top Dog N2 H20's Avatar
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    Re: "Angry Cardinal" 550/750 build

    My conversion ski carves great. My weight might have a lot to do with it since I only weigh 135. It stays hooked up in the corners really well and handles great going in a straight line at WOT. Absolutely no porpoising and stays perfectly straight. My setup is: 750 sp cases, 650 crank and top end, sbn44, prok f/a, westcoast pipe and mani, resonator w/ no waterbox, milled head, flow control valve, 550 pump w/ 19 skat, westcoast open intake grate, ocean pro "ocean" rideplate.
    Last edited by N2 H20; 07-27-2011 at 02:38 PM.

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