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  1. #21
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home fox river pwc's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    It is sad what some unions have become. If you really study the history of unions, it's obvious that they served a real and legitmate need just a few generations ago. However, as laws (like minimum wages and anti-discrimination laws, for example) and OSHA regulations have served to protect workers, much of the original need for unions has diminished.

    Didn't rush limbaugh say something recently like, "If labor unions are so great, how come everybody in America isn't clamoring to get into one?".

    Obviously, this current issue goes WAY deeper than the modest compensation changes that are soon to be up for a vote here in WI. From what I can tell, it's WAY more about the control (to the union leaders and supporters) than it's about the actual dollar amount or percentages. I mean, some of them are comparing Walker to hitler, c'mon, gimme a break. Yes, the way Walker is going about it isn't perfect or ideal, but I applaud him (and the current batch of state reps with a backbone) for taking on this battle, as I feel it's the first of many necessary steps to get WI back to what it SHOULD be - and I realize the whole country is watching, which may mean even more in the long run / big picture.

    Hey, where's all the mainstream media guys who like to support liberal ideas with the concept that the ends justify the means? After all, that's how we wound up with obamacare, right? So now we've got Scott Walker getting attacked by many people more for HOW he's going about getting this done, than what he's actually trying to accomplish. This truly is a case study in double standards by our media - which is nothing new. Sad but true.


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  2. #22
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Spim's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    wow, great posts everyone, I actually enjoyed this thread...! and nobody has blamed this on Bush or said its all corporate.. wtf !!!
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  3. #23
    Sassy Boy! PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Looter's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    Quote Originally Posted by R Hudson View Post
    The part that bothers me right nowt is that the Teachers unions get slammed while Police and Fire do not. You can go ahead and say it is just a matter of time but that means nothing right now. It indicates preferential treatment.
    Do you mean just in your state or nation wide? We are constantly getting slammed right now and our union isn't even a "union"... we don't hit the streets protesting or threaten to go on strike because we can't. But we're getting slammed by people who think we're going to retire with a billion dollars in our pockets. We're under all kinds of scrutiny... as much as any other labor group. The difference is that you don't see firemen out in the streets crying about paying our retirement, getting pay cuts to save jobs, etc. We just do it. In the end, the public always supports us for it.

    Those of you that think you know so much about Unions and their missions, I wonder if you've ever been in one. I agree that some unions are empty muscle asking for the world... but to group them all together is like saying all couch riders are fat douchesacks. Even if 99% of them are, there is still 1% that is douchesack free. There are a lot of people on here that just "know" where the economy is going and just "know" that unions are going to kill all of the puppies in the world... you guys sure think pretty highly of yourselves and your opinions.
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  4. #24
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Scott Kalisch's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    Lower pay? Teachers in NJ are doing pretty damn well for themselves!

    They CHOSE to become teachers, and sign up for the Union stuff that goes along with it.

    Elections were held, a new Governor was voted in by the people of Wisconsin. He's being asked to balance the budget, and this is how it begins.

    Didn't the all mighty Obama himself say EVERYONE has to tighten their belts, and make concessions?

    Those teachers either try and help out, or many of them will be losing their jobs.

    My problem is they just walked out! Basically saying they don't give a crap about the students...really shows what they really think.

    The Democrats that walked out and are playing this stupid game.... round them all up and terminate them all. That should open up some jobs.

    They are being paid by tax payers to discuss and vote on these issues...but now they want to take their ball and go home and have a stand off?

    And Liberal media is standing by supporting them?

    Obama once again shows he is clueless and has no balls!

  5. #25
    Norge PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home R Hudson's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    Quote Originally Posted by Looter View Post
    Do you mean just in your state or nation wide? We are constantly getting slammed right now and our union isn't even a "union"... we don't hit the streets protesting or threaten to go on strike because we can't. But we're getting slammed by people who think we're going to retire with a billion dollars in our pockets. We're under all kinds of scrutiny... as much as any other labor group. The difference is that you don't see firemen out in the streets crying about paying our retirement, getting pay cuts to save jobs, etc. We just do it. In the end, the public always supports us for it.

    Those of you that think you know so much about Unions and their missions, I wonder if you've ever been in one. I agree that some unions are empty muscle asking for the world... but to group them all together is like saying all couch riders are fat douchesacks. Even if 99% of them are, there is still 1% that is douchesack free. There are a lot of people on here that just "know" where the economy is going and just "know" that unions are going to kill all of the puppies in the world... you guys sure think pretty highly of yourselves and your opinions.
    I'm speaking about Wisconsin-only Dave.

    Most of the teachers agree that the benefit cut is tolerable but they don't want to relinquish the right to collective bargaining and that is what this entails. So far everyone is so concentrated on this issue that they aren't even paying attention to the massive cuts that will be made in education. There's a lot more to come.

    One other thing.......for those of you who think that all teachers get a tasty 3 months off per year that is rarely the case. Many positions only pay for the 9 months of active employment. Both of my parents were teachers and they worked summers not to supplement their income, but rather, to simply generate an income.

  6. #26
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home momarski's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    I don't usually agree with looter in fact we have gone at it severely over the years, but after spending some time at the fire stations here in town I got a real grasp of what they do and how they earn there money and they are being cut back in pay, they work massive hours and the pay is not that good, its true they sleep some of the time they are getting paid but if duty calls they don't get to sleep, corrections officers here got the worse pay cut, police are being thinned down and got a pay cut, teachers get no cost of living increases and in some cases are on 4 day weeks and teachers never made that much to begin with unless they are a uc college professor, yeah in vegas its work together to cut back and try and get through this

    the fireman who has the most toys, works 90% of all his hours he exist, taking everyone's shifts they can when the other guys want time off, he don't see his family much, hes working, if I were a fireman I would work the minimum I could to spend time with my family but things would be tight at home, to me family time is everything, cannot get it back, screw the money
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  7. #27
    Sassy Boy! PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Looter's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    Quote Originally Posted by momarski View Post
    the fireman who has the most toys, works 90% of all his hours he exist, taking everyone's shifts they can when the other guys want time off, he don't see his family much, hes working, if I were a fireman I would work the minimum I could to spend time with my family but things would be tight at home, to me family time is everything, cannot get it back, screw the money
    And you know the crazy part about that? Those guys/gals have their salary in the newspaper and people think that all firemen make that kind of money. There are firefighters that make over 120K but the thing that people don't realize is that my normal week, before any overtime, is a 56 hour workweek. That's the same as 8 hours a day, 7 days per week. So when we work overtime... we're putting in a ton of hours and for most of us, it isn't elective. We're down spots due to budget constraints and we all are forced to pick up the slack.

    I agree Momar... I'd rather be home than work any day. Luckily the young kids are chasing the money and it gives the rest of us a chance to be at home. One of the things that we've negotiated is that we can take Comp. Time instead of money when we work overtime... that way, if someone will fill my shift, I'm heading home. I'm able to take most weekends off to be home with the wife and kids. I'll say it again... I totally agree that time with the family trumps any kind of money.
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  8. #28
    Sassy Boy! PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Looter's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Kalisch View Post
    They CHOSE to become teachers, and sign up for the Union stuff that goes along with it.
    With all due respect... that argument is tired. Doesn't everyone choose the job they're in? Either by working for it or failing to change it, we're all in our jobs by choice. People always point at unionized labor as the answer or cause for all of the budge woes facing us today.

    I chose to be a fireman. I chose to work long hours for lower pay than I could comparably make in the private sector. I did make that choice. I also negotiated away raises and additional staffing to maintain a retirement plan and benefits package because I, and my fellow firefighters, felt that they were more important than cash in pocket. So now we're the bad guys because we came to a mutual agreement with our City during negotiations? The citizens chose the elected officials and they chose to accept a mutually beneficial contract... why aren't they guilty? Oh... my bad... we don't take responsibility for our actions anymore... I forgot.
    Dave "Looter" Hardenburger
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  9. #29
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Scottie Mac's Avatar
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    Here in VA, we are a right to work state. That means the unions don't have collective bargening. They can't strike, it is illegal.

    To give the 'other side' of this debate - about 15 years ago, the lawmakers in VA decided to make a deal with the teachers that they would fully fund their retirement program. That was their excuse for not bringing the state up to the national average for teacher salaries. VA is the 14th richest state in the Nation, but pays on the 39th scale. Teachers work twice as hard today because of the standards set by No Child Left Behind. They generally arrive early and stay late. NO ONE on here should say what it is to be a teacher until you do a little research. I can tell you now, there is no way I would do that job in exchange for poor pay, little to no respect, dealing with disrespectful kids not to mention their parents and oh, for your troubles, the lawmakers will renege on their promisses of the past and expect you to take the hit for it. Most of the localities haven't had raises in three years, not even COLAs - cost of living adjustments - and the one thing they could fall back on was their retirement. Not anymore.

    I don't know too many people on here who would be happy if your contract said you were to receive certain benefits and then up, out of the blue, the lawmakers who have not shown fiscal responsibility, decide to tell you they want to change the parameters of said contract, and you should be willing to be happy about it. Come on people, not a person on here would be happy about that. These same lawmakers are also willing to vote themselves a pay raise nearly every year.

    Our country is full of a no pay tax base, we are spending money hand over fist on special interest programs and the teachers, police and fire should take the hit? Wow. Again, I am not all pro union, but I am willing to admit that if I was treated the way they are, I would be pissed, too.

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  10. #30
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    Re: WTF Wisconson , Protesting, this ain't Egypt !

    I think this would be good for NY if they followed suit but i dont think they would. The teachers in NY have become to strong. They have a building in NYC where they put teachers because they are there because they have serious accusations against them and they cant fire them because the union made it to hard. Not only that but after teachers hit tenure they are so hard to fire it never happens so even if there performance drops off they still get to stay. Not only that but we pay huge sums of money to school every year. If you own a 120-150k house here your takes are 3500-4500. 800-1200 will go to the town the rest goes to school taxes.

    on the flip side here FD and LEO get paid crap as a mater of fact most police stations pay crap. only the state troopers get paid well in NY. most i have applied for start off at around 35k and top out in mid to upper 50s and 1/2 after 20 years 1/60 for every year after 20 years. the thing about it is that FD and LEO put there life on the line every day.
    Last edited by stingray152003; 02-19-2011 at 10:36 AM.

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