Just replaced my starter brushes today
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  1. #1
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home seadoobutch787's Avatar
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    Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Today i was having an issue with my starter not turning over on my 96xp. I took out the starter and took it apart to find that the 2 brushes that ride on the armature where pretty worn out. I called my local seadoo dealer and they had the positive brush kit and the neg plate. I have to say that putting in the new brushes was pretty easy. The hardest part was trying to get the damn starter out from under my motor. I figured out that i needed to take the rear plate off so that i could get it out lol. After i cleaned the whole starter with electro contact spray and bolted it back up the ski fired right up and alot quicker that before.

    I would have thought that seadoo starters would have 4 brushes like a few aftermarket starters i have bought before. But i will tell you that this starter is stock and with a higher compression head and it's lasted this long is pretty good. I would recommend anybody that is mechanical to fix there brushes instead of buying a new starter.

    I paid less than $40 for the kit to rebuild it.


    Im thinking that 90% of the time with starters the brushes are at fault with the starter not turning over IF you have looked at everything else that could be the issue
    Last edited by seadoobutch787; 08-18-2009 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #2
    PWCToday Newbie
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    do you have a parts # for the rebuild kit?
    this is from a 787 engine right?

    thx

  3. #3
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home seadoobutch787's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    278000058 is the part # for the Negative brush holder


    278000252 is the part # for the brush starter kit which is the positive brush

  4. #4
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home jerrspud's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Here is an update for older 2 bolt starters. I had a hard time getting the correct numbers from the part monkeys at the dealership. Thank goodness one guy new the problem after the d-bag guy went away. The HLSM (for old pre 96 parts look up) said the brush holder does not come with brushes, but the old number crosses to a new number that does come with the brush. This seems to only be an issue on the yellow motors.

    You need to buy two different parts. The a brush kit that has only brush A (not much of a kit) and the brush holder that comes with brush B.

    Kit 2780001297
    249307_241103879243997_5002490_n 1.jpg
    you could probably just use two of these if you pry the other brush out of the holder.

    Holder (sometimes called a COMMUTATOR) 278001296
    283510_241358302551888_6310852_n.jpg

    The brushes were worn down to the point there was no more tension on the spring.
    285337_241102942577424_551365_n.jpg
    285066_241104075910644_7459765_n.jpg

    It was a very easy job to replace the brushes. I put on a piece of tape on the case to keep the the case from spinning. There are alignment marks, but I was not about the pull the whole thing apart. I just pulled off the rear cap. Use the shop manual as a reference.
    184101_241358399218545_3478215_n.jpg


    The only hard part was getting to the starter bolts to remove it. I pulled the pipe.. although some say you don't have to, but I could not see anything even with a mirror. It's not hard to pull the pipe anyway. You just have the replace the gasket is the only disadvantage.

    Once I got the correct tool, things went way better on re-installation. Get yourself a long nut driver extension and a magnetic nut driver bit. The size is 13MM, but I could only find SAE at Harbor Freight. I bought the SAE kit and the 1/2" bit worked just fine.
    281670_244011475619904_4109203_n.jpg

    I used my mirror and that bottom bolt went in with no problems.
    224406_244011545619897_5629040_n.jpg

    here is a list of starters the brush part numbers should work on
    Applications:

    1988 Sea-Doo SP Starter

    1989 Sea-Doo SP Starter

    1990 Sea-Doo GT Starter
    1990 Sea-Doo SP Starter

    1991 Sea-Doo GT Starter
    1991 Sea-Doo SP Starter
    1991 Sea-Doo SPI Starter
    1991 Sea-Doo XP Starter

    1992 Sea-Doo GTS Starter
    1992 Sea-Doo GTX Starter
    1992 Sea-Doo SP Starter
    1992 Sea-Doo SPI Starter
    1992 Sea-Doo XP Starter

    1993 Sea-Doo GTS Starter
    1993 Sea-Doo GTX Starter
    1993 Sea-Doo SP Starter
    1993 Sea-Doo SPI Starter
    1993 Sea-Doo SPX Starter

    1994 Sea-Doo GTS Starter
    1994 Sea-Doo SP Starter
    1994 Sea-Doo SPI Starter

    1993 Sea-Doo XP Starter

    1994 Sea-Doo GTX Starter
    1994 Sea-Doo SPX Starter
    1994 Sea-Doo XP Starter

    1997 Sea-Doo SP Starter
    1997 Sea-Doo GTS Starter

    The dealer also said you can't get the starter gasket anymore. I don't' know if that's true or not, but you can make your own or get one from SBT or make your own



    So far one trip to the lake and the starter worked great.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jerrspud; 09-02-2014 at 08:15 PM. Reason: fix pics
    Jerr
    SeaDoo FAQs
    Kawi FAQs

    92 Kawasaki 550SX 89 550PP, 44MM SBN carb, Westcoast exhaust, Mariner head, OceanPro rideplate
    90 Sea-Doo SP Quadra-Fin rideplate, Solas 14x19 prop, Tuned Pipe, 147 RV, Mariner intake manifold , 44MM SBN Carb, K&N performance arrestor, 91 XP hood
    96 Sea-Doo SPX X4 Hull- R&D rideplate, NuJet prop, RAM cup holder, Commercial Tiny Tach
    88 JS550
    pile of parts, but it's all there

    Quote Originally Posted by JetDreams
    your finger is the trigger to success...

  5. #5
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home BLRider's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Nice write up on doing some maintenance.
    Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  6. #6
    I dream skis EngineerJon's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Great work.

  7. #7
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Mr. Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Jerrspud,

    90% is a bit optimistic.

    I have personally rebuilt many starters and some looked new with only a broken brush weaved copper lead wire, and others were in several different stages of wear from rebuildable to junk. I realized that I could not make money rebuilding them myself, when I could be making alot more doing normal repair chores on the customers Sea Doo's.

    I took 10 starters to a starter/generator rebuild shop that is close to me and I have used for better than 30 years. They do excellent work. He called me and said 4 starters were completely junk and no way would they work or last if he rebuilt them. He rebuilt the other 6 starters for me, and cleaned up the armatures with a lathe and cleaned and tested the field coils and installed new bushings and brush kits. He found the exact same brush kits ( and starter motors ) were used in some model of a Toyota forklift that he has rebuilt several starters for local businesses. The brush kits were about 1/2 the price that Sea Doo gets for them even with my discount. Each starter was run on the bench and load tested. I paid him $40 per starter motor and took them to the shop so I could offer my customers a rebuilt starter motor for a huge discounted price with a usable core exchange.

    Of the six rebuilt starters, only 1/2 of them lasted for over a year. Two of the others I had to replace at my expense. I quit selling rebuilt starters.

    When I do not have a starter gasket, I use Ultra Black Gasket maker on the flanges of the starter motor and the mag housing. Sometimes I slip an oring onto the starter motor so it will seat up against the mag housing to help form a better seal.

    I can pull the starters out of those older models without removing the pipe or buying any special tools that a mechanic does not allready have in his tool box, even most amature home mechanics' tool boxes. The most "special" tools is nothing but a long 3/8ths extension for the socket and ratchet set and my 3/8ths drive air ratchet.

    Without looking with a mirror or anything, I reach in and disconnect the mount bolt into the case at the back of the starter motor. Then I slide my long extension with a 13mm socket on it along side the starter motor and onto the 13mm bolts that hold the starter motor to the engine cases. After removing them, I use the red cable that is connected to the post on the starter motor to pull the starter out, then I remove the red cable from the starter motor.
    Next, I reach in with a razor blade and scrape the gasket surface on the mag housing to clean it. I prepare the new starter motor and the mag housing with a light coat of Ultra black gasket maker, after taking the rear bracket off and putting it onto the new starter motor.

    Now here is the trick to doing this job. I wrap some black electrical tape around my 13mm shallow 6 point socket and the extension so that the socket will stay onto the extension when I pull it back out after installing the top bolt with the ground wire on the bolt.
    To do this I put the bolt into the socket and I cut a slit in another piece of tape and slide the tape over the bolt threads and down to the top of the socket, using the two pieces of tape to attach to the sides of the socket. This holds the bolt heads inside the socket so it cannot fall out. I place the bolt that is in the extension thru the ground connector and then thru the top bolt hole on the starter motor, then I reach in and place the starter into the mag housing. Pressing against the bolt with my hand over the other end of the extension, I feel when it aligns with the threads in the mag housing, the I turn the bolt by hand until it begins to go into the threads about at least a quarter inch. Next I put the air ratchet drive into the end of the extension and let it wind the bolt completely into the threads, but not tight. I basicall do the same thing over to install the bottom bolt, snugly but not tight. Install the short 8mm bolt thru the mount and into the case, but not tight using a 13mm ratchet box end wrench, or a 1/4 in drive socket and 1/4 in ratchet. Go back in and tighten the two strater bolts, then the bracket bolt followed by the positive cable using a 10mm box end ratchet wrench.

    The job is done in 30 minutes or less, which is probably less time that you will be removing and replacing the exhaust pipe alone.

    The trick is the black electrical tape. You must make sure that the bolt tape is less adhered to the socket than the socket is secured to the extension so when you pull the extension and socket back out, the socket stays on the extension.

    Air tools and ratchet wrenches. I love them both. Sometimes I do this job with my 1/4" long extension and 1/4 inch air ratchet. Either way the job gets done, but using the 1/4 inch stuff, I have to go back in there to make sure the bolts get tightened enough before doing anything else. I perfer the 3/8ths drive tools for the extra power of the 3/8ths ratachet. I think I'll buy me a 3/8th drive battery powered ratchet next and if it fits in there I'll try using that ratchet just to get the air hose out of the job. I have a 3/8 ths drive battery powered Impact gun that I can use anywhere to remove a jetpump and the nozzels, like on the beach at the races, or out in the parking lot at the shop.

    Bill O'Neal
    WCM
    Last edited by Mr. Bill; 08-09-2011 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #8
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Mr. Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Also leave the starter mounting bracket on the back of the new starter loose so the bolt can be put into the side of the engine without any hassels. Tighten the 8mm bolt into the case first, followed by the two small bracket nuts. These little things are what makes the job go smoothly and faster so you do not need to fight any bolts for alignment.

    Jerrspud, do not reuse the commuator plate because the springs may be ready to break at any time when they get that old.

    One time I had to use brushes that I cut down to the size of a Sea Doo brush so it would fit into the brackets, then I soldered the brush cable to the commuator plate and the other to the old starter wire post

    Bill O'Neal
    WCM
    Last edited by Mr. Bill; 08-09-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  9. #9
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home jerrspud's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bill View Post
    Jerrspud,

    90% is a bit optimistic.
    that wasn't me that said that; it was the OP. My guess would be 75.6%

    good info Bill, lots of options for people

    I do plan to update this tread on the condition of my starter a year from now, because it's a FAQs tread.
    Last edited by jerrspud; 08-09-2011 at 05:17 PM.
    Jerr
    SeaDoo FAQs
    Kawi FAQs

    92 Kawasaki 550SX 89 550PP, 44MM SBN carb, Westcoast exhaust, Mariner head, OceanPro rideplate
    90 Sea-Doo SP Quadra-Fin rideplate, Solas 14x19 prop, Tuned Pipe, 147 RV, Mariner intake manifold , 44MM SBN Carb, K&N performance arrestor, 91 XP hood
    96 Sea-Doo SPX X4 Hull- R&D rideplate, NuJet prop, RAM cup holder, Commercial Tiny Tach
    88 JS550
    pile of parts, but it's all there

    Quote Originally Posted by JetDreams
    your finger is the trigger to success...

  10. #10
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home jerrspud's Avatar
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    Re: Just replaced my starter brushes today

    year later.. stater still works great

    edit:
    2013 end of season: ... still works great

    edit:
    2014... still works

    Edit:
    2015...still works
    Last edited by jerrspud; 04-21-2016 at 09:23 PM.
    Jerr
    SeaDoo FAQs
    Kawi FAQs

    92 Kawasaki 550SX 89 550PP, 44MM SBN carb, Westcoast exhaust, Mariner head, OceanPro rideplate
    90 Sea-Doo SP Quadra-Fin rideplate, Solas 14x19 prop, Tuned Pipe, 147 RV, Mariner intake manifold , 44MM SBN Carb, K&N performance arrestor, 91 XP hood
    96 Sea-Doo SPX X4 Hull- R&D rideplate, NuJet prop, RAM cup holder, Commercial Tiny Tach
    88 JS550
    pile of parts, but it's all there

    Quote Originally Posted by JetDreams
    your finger is the trigger to success...

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