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  1. #1
    Tech Guru PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Watercraft Magic's Avatar
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    Makes a guy wonder !

    Who is going to allow this adminstration to completely turn over our healthcare system to a bunch of idiots who cannot even figure out how to pay for a clunkers program that they installed without forethought ?

    A program that was to go into effect in July and last until November, ran out of funds in only 4 days ! Yeah right, less than 1 trillion for healthcare ? I am not buying it ! These idiots have no clue how much money they are wasting.

    Let's say I am a junkyard, what incentive do I have for taking clunkers ? I've got to tote them here, I gotta take 'em apart and crush them, I cannot sell the really good parts, I have to chemically make them unuseable so I cannot sell them except for scrap metal value. Then I gotta pay to get them to the scrap metal recycling center. I lose a few hundered $'s on every one I take. This sets up one of the biggest fraudlent schemes in decades ! Who owns the junkyards and scrap metal businesses ? I'll tell you who, Armenians and Russians, and crooks who have for decades run these businesses filled with all sorts of scams on society, but powerfull enough to go to congress and get them to subsidize the junk yards for taking in clunkers and the recycling centers for recycling the stuff they can recycle from the cars, which is now some 99% of the materials. How much is that going to cost taxpayers ?

    I am also a good guy, I was trying to do my part a year ago. I sold my SUV and bought a gas efficieent box to drive to work. I get to pay for the clunkers program, but I am not eligible to partici[pate in it. Lucky me ! More handouts at my expense !

    And I am susposed to trust these clowns with my healthcare ? My tax dollars ? Unbelieveable !
    Last edited by Watercraft Magic; 07-31-2009 at 04:22 PM.
    email Chris at Watercraft Magic cdofixr1@live.com

  2. #2
    I dream skis
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    I think you missed key points of the programs-- it was purposely limited at $1BB dollars. It ran out of money b/c that's all they allocated to it. What, you want MORE??

    It hit the limit (or will) b/c it is a popular program - people are buy cars. I don't agree with it, like you but it is what it is.

    They will only trash the engine. The rest, if I remember correctly, is supposed to go to salvage. They're recycling the parts.

    Why is you guys refuse to understand the health reform thing. You don't have to change anything. If you have coverage, you can keep it.
    2002 Yamaha GP1200R
    2002 Yamaha FX140

  3. #3
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    Quote Originally Posted by unclefire View Post
    I think you missed key points of the programs-- it was purposely limited at $1BB dollars. It ran out of money b/c that's all they allocated to it. What, you want MORE??

    It hit the limit (or will) b/c it is a popular program - people are buy cars. I don't agree with it, like you but it is what it is.

    They will only trash the engine. The rest, if I remember correctly, is supposed to go to salvage. They're recycling the parts.

    Why is you guys refuse to understand the health reform thing. You don't have to change anything. If you have coverage, you can keep it.
    Wrong and wrong!!

    They gave it 1 billion which they believed would last till the end of september and into october. Now they are scrambling for another 2 billion to put into this program. Its a popular program because there giving away money. You have to understanmd that when gov gives away anything it costs the taxpayer 3 times the amount there giving you. Its a very inneficcient process.

    Now if you have coverage you can keep it but only until you have to for any minor reason change your coverage. So basically within 5 years everyone will have to have gov healthcare. And yes we do have to change something. We have to pay for everybodies health care.
    Yes, i don't spell check or grammar check and i make frequent grammatical errors. If anyone wants to tell me that why don't you just bite your tounge. Were on here to share our knowledge of the great invention that is the jet watercrafts and lets keep it to that!!

  4. #4
    Tech Guru PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Watercraft Magic's Avatar
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    Quote Originally Posted by unclefire View Post
    I think you missed key points of the programs-- it was purposely limited at $1BB dollars. It ran out of money b/c that's all they allocated to it. What, you want MORE??

    They are gathered together today to find another 3 billion to add to the program. More of my tax money. Where does it stop ?

    It hit the limit (or will) b/c it is a popular program - people are buy cars. I don't agree with it, like you but it is what it is.

    Yes it is good people are buying cars, too bad only about 3% of them are from GM and Chrysler, the companies you own ! Too bad you get to pay for it but cannot particpate in it.

    They will only trash the engine. The rest, if I remember correctly, is supposed to go to salvage. They're recycling the parts.

    What are you going to do with the rest of the good ( meaning valuable ) parts if the motors cannot be resold ? Who wants an ECU for a vehicle they cannot get a motor for ?

    Why is you guys refuse to understand the health reform thing. You don't have to change anything. If you have coverage, you can keep it.
    I understand that fine, I just do not believe it. There is no such thing as fair competition between my insurance conmpany and a gov't plan subsidized by tax dollars. Why do you think most experts are saying 160 million Americans will switch to the gov't plan, because their EMPLOYER will no longer offer them the private insurance plan ? Right now, you can choose your healthcare plan but if insurance companies cannot compete fairly, there will be no choices for middle class people. Do I trust this congress and adminstration to work in my best interests ? Hell no. Not until they put tort reform on the table to reduce healthcare costs by 30%. Without tort reform, you cannot add 30-50 million people to the system and expect any kind of real healthcare reform.

    The crap they are spewing in Washington is not healthcare reform, it is healthcare insurance reform. You just need to look beyond the screen of BS being touted to us about it being healthcare reform. Without Tort reform, we all get screwed except the lawyers and the congressmen who benefit from not passing tort reform.

    My real point was idiots set up programs that they cannot pay for.
    Last edited by Watercraft Magic; 07-31-2009 at 05:08 PM.
    email Chris at Watercraft Magic cdofixr1@live.com

  5. #5
    resident guru
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    So all the junkyards are run by the Russians? I suppose all 7-11 clerks are from India too huh?

    The program ran out of funds early because it was more popular than anticipated. It was also a bipartisan program. It was designed to stimulate new car sales, so that the car companies could begin to recover and stop bleeding jobs. And apparently it worked, all the dealers in my area are advertising the heck out of it.

    The fact you traded in a SUV for a more efficient car years ago is not the point. You did what you did as a result of the situation at hand. Maybe you got tired of paying so much for a tank of gas that did not even last a week. Maybe your vehicle was getting old and did not run very well. Maybe it needed expensive work. Maybe the AC did not work. Who knows.

    As for the hand out thing - people are still having to pay for their cars. Nobody is getting a free car. If anyone is getting a handout, it is the car dealers, car salesmen, auto companies, factory workers, truck drivers, and so on. They in turn pay taxes, and shop for stuff - dumping more money into the economy and helping fuel more businesses. And they would also get a "handout" if they are out of work on unemployment. At least this way the "handout" keeps people working, and paying into unemployment.

    I do not think the program needs to continue forever. When the market is able to stand on its own - end it. No problem. But right now, I think that this is one program that makes some sense.

    I think more funds will be made available for this program. How much more? Who knows. Maybe until everyone that is going to trade in a clunker for a new car has done so. But by then, it will have generated a lot of car sales - and run its course.

    You can still get a "handout" however. Go buy an old truck that barely runs for $700 and then trade it in.

  6. #6
    Norge PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home R Hudson's Avatar
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    Quote Originally Posted by Iguana View Post

    You can still get a "handout" however. Go buy an old truck that barely runs for $700 and then trade it in.
    Actually it's a bit more complicated than that.

    Go to:

    http://www.cars.gov/index.php/how

    Read step 2

    You can't just go out and buy a clunker to trade-in. You have to have owned and insured it for at least one year prior to trade-in and have no lien on the vehicle at time of trade-in.

  7. #7
    I dream skis
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    Quote Originally Posted by mcurcio1989 View Post
    Wrong and wrong!!
    They gave it 1 billion which they believed would last till the end of september and into october. Now they are scrambling for another 2 billion to put into this program. Its a popular program because there giving away money. You have to understanmd that when gov gives away anything it costs the taxpayer 3 times the amount there giving you. Its a very inneficcient process.
    I didn't say anything wrong... I never said I agreed with what they did, but what I stated was correct.

    Now if you have coverage you can keep it but only until you have to for any minor reason change your coverage. So basically within 5 years everyone will have to have gov healthcare. And yes we do have to change something. We have to pay for everybodies health care.
    No, that's wrong. If I switch employers, I can take their coverage if I want. Show me in the bill where it states I have to take ANY public plan -- assuming it even makes into the final legislation. The other options, assuming they stay in the bill, is the health insurance exchange which will be primarily private insurance where YOU pay the premiums. Their MIGHT be a public option-- that remains to be seen. And there may be some subsidy for those who meet certain income requirements (which I don't buy into unless its for people that are near the poverty level).
    2002 Yamaha GP1200R
    2002 Yamaha FX140

  8. #8
    I dream skis
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    Quote Originally Posted by R Hudson View Post
    Actually it's a bit more complicated than that.

    Go to:

    http://www.cars.gov/index.php/how

    Read step 2

    You can't just go out and buy a clunker to trade-in. You have to have owned and insured it for at least one year prior to trade-in and have no lien on the vehicle at time of trade-in.
    That's correct, you need to own the vehicle for at least one year.
    2002 Yamaha GP1200R
    2002 Yamaha FX140

  9. #9
    I dream skis
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill O'Neal View Post
    I understand that fine, I just do not believe it. There is no such thing as fair competition between my insurance conmpany and a gov't plan subsidized by tax dollars. Why do you think most experts are saying 160 million Americans will switch to the gov't plan, because their EMPLOYER will no longer offer them the private insurance plan? Right now, you can choose your healthcare plan but if insurance companies cannot compete fairly, there will be no choices for middle class people. Do I trust this congress and adminstration to work in my best interests ? Hell no. Not until they put tort reform on the table to reduce healthcare costs by 30%. Without tort reform, you cannot add 30-50 million people to the system and expect any kind of real healthcare reform.
    I find it awfully funny how on one hand people say the gov. sucks and can't run anything efficiently, then on the other hand say that a public plan will be MORE cost competitive with private plans. The only way it WON'T be fair competition is if the gov. artificially sets reimbursements lower (then many docs simply won't honor it or co-pays will be higher). And if they do force costs down, then its good for all of us-- health care costs have been rising much, much faster than inflation and wages.

    In at least one version of the plan there is a pay-or-play aspect of it-- employers will pay one way or the other.

    The crap they are spewing in Washington is not healthcare reform, it is healthcare insurance reform. You just need to look beyond the screen of BS being touted to us about it being healthcare reform. Without Tort reform, we all get screwed except the lawyers and the congressmen who benefit from not passing tort reform.
    That's not entire true. There are a variety of things in there to look at how health care is delivered and looking at outcomes.

    I agree, there's missing the boat big time on not addressing tort reform.


    My real point was idiots set up programs that they cannot pay for.
    We're in agreement there.

    Don't get me wrong-- I'm not really supporting this plan. But at the same time, I don't want to see things distorted either.
    2002 Yamaha GP1200R
    2002 Yamaha FX140

  10. #10
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home Scott Kalisch's Avatar
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    Re: Makes a guy wonder !

    IF SO MANY people are buying new cars, the economy can't be THAT BAD right?

    This is just another form of Govt getting involved and coercing people into buying cars they can't afford. It was the same damn thing with houses.

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