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  1. #1
    Top Dog west_coaster's Avatar
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    Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    This thread will be used to chronicle the efforts to replace the Honda ECU on the turbo models.

    The effort has many goals, and many obstacles. If we pool our efforts and skills we can replace the stock Honda ECU with a fully customized ECU, and still be able to easily return to completely stock.

    The toughts so far are to use:
    Microsquirt http://www.microsquirt.info/

    And MegaSquirt II V3 - features at http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/


    These are very similar, Microsquirt is already waterproof and has essentially the same features as Megasquirt. Megasquirt has some additional hardware features that are of interest to some of the tinkerers.

    There are other ECU's that offer higher resolution & 3D maps, and better control of external electronics, but are at a much higher cost. This is aimed at the cheaper end of the realm. Megasquirt can be build for ~$150, an off the shelf ECU like Autronics, Motec, Wolf, Link, SDS, etc.. are $1500 and up.





    Some of the benefits to this will be:
    Custom tuneable fuel map
    Custom tuneable spark map
    User settable rev limiter (Hard and soft settings)
    Programmable from a laptop or Palm.
    Datalogging - can use wireless to tune and datalog from shore, or even through a wireless cellphone.
    Can retain safety such as over boost and knock.
    Better fuel economy
    More RPM's - More horsepower
    Support for other mods


    There are several obstacles:
    * We don't have a 22 pin female connector to plug into the stock harness.
    * The engine uses COP (Coil on plug) - we will need to use either EDIS (Ford multispark) or some other solution.
    * Cam gear has 3 teeth, Crank has 12. Need a decoder to trigger spark and fuel system.
    * Need to find a place to put a wideband O2 sensor into the exhaust path. Different years, and R vs. F pose problems.
    I'm sure there are more that I've not thought of.





    If you have something to offer on getting the project started, please post.
    05 F-12X

    I'm on the drinking diet. I lost 2 days already.

  2. #2
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home vitaly's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    About time!

  3. #3

    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    Here are some solutions we've been playing with for our problems...

    *The connector:
    We are activly searching to find this little bugger. The older F-12X's use two 22 pin connectors as well as one smaller one, while the R-12X's and newer F-12X's use just two 26 pin connectors. All of these connectors use a small flat blade terminal, but the male connectors on the harness are actually female terminals...
    So, untill we can find the actuall connector, we will be just using individual pins pushed directly into the connector. Suprisingly, they hold verry snug and aren't at risk of pulling out.
    Worst case, we stay with the individual pins solution and after inital testing just coat them all in a flexible epoxy, glue, or silicone to ensure they stay put.

    *The Coil on Plug solution
    It may be possible for the Micro / Mega squirt to directly drive these in what's known as a "Wasted Spark" setup. Basically, since they only have two ignition trigger outputs, you tie the coils on cylinders 1,4 and 2,3 togeather and the spark plugs fire on both the compression stroke and exhaust stroke. There is no known downfall to this... the only question is if the coils can respond to the signal voltage provided. If not, then a OEM car contoller like the EDIS is necessary.

    *The cam Position Sensor
    This can be solved in three ways that we can tell...
    1) grind or machine off the extra two teeth on the cam. This is the easiest solution for us, but not everybody will want to pull off the valve cover to get at it.
    2) create a adapter that reads in the input from the cam sensor and outputs just one pulse at TDC
    3) tweak the programming of the Mega / Micro squirt. This is possible thanks to the Open Source nature of these ECU's... We only need to add counting & Synch code to this input to recognize wich pulse is TDC and disreguard the other two. Should be mildly easy for a programmer... if we can get one to look at it. **This is the preferred method, if workable

    *Wideband o2 sensor
    This is a requirement for inital tuning... It can be removed after getting your maps good enough. People have placed these into the exhaust by either making a adapter that goes in between the turbo exhaust manafold and the muffler or by machining out a plug in the exhaust manafold and welding in a threaded bung for the sensor. Positioning for the R-12X is easy with the threaded bung method, but we have to look harder at the F-12X.
    Robert Stellhorn #811 -- Retired from Racing for the moment
    DJSA Staff Member
    '89 Yamaha SuperJet Square Nose, ready to put the hurt on anyone, anytime
    '02 Honda F-12X with more hours on it than i can count
    '03 Honda R-12X (most of it anyways) waiting in "mothball fleet" status

  4. #4
    Top Dog west_coaster's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    cam.GIF

    From this picture you can see the crank has a 12 tooth wheel, and the cam has a 3 tooth wheel.

    As the cam spins 1/2 the speed of the crank, on the compression stroke of #1, the cam sensor gives a sync pulse and a trigger a bit later, and only one sync pulse on an exhaust stroke.

    What I'm building is a PIC chip (IC) that will essentially throw out the sync pulses and only send the trigger. By counting crank pulses and sync'ing with the cam sync pulse, I know where the engine is rotation wise and can provide a #1 trigger signal. Using the s/w in MS we can trigger at 10 BTDC or whatever.

    What I need to do next is find out how many crank pulses appear between the two close teeth on the cam gear. I have a dual trace O-Scope and will measure it when I get my ski back running. I also need to verify the timing relationship between all these events compared to TDC.

    On a Nitro kit I suspect he changes the cam trigger gear so there is only one tooth. In some racing venues, you are not allowed to do any internal engine modifications, so this will keep you legal.
    Last edited by west_coaster; 07-06-2007 at 03:46 PM.
    05 F-12X

    I'm on the drinking diet. I lost 2 days already.

  5. #5
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home vitaly's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    Quote Originally Posted by creator
    *The connector:
    We are activly searching to find this little bugger. The older F-12X's use two 22 pin connectors as well as one smaller one, while the R-12X's and newer F-12X's use just two 26 pin connectors. All of these connectors use a small flat blade terminal, but the male connectors on the harness are actually female terminals...
    So, untill we can find the actuall connector, we will be just using individual pins pushed directly into the connector. Suprisingly, they hold verry snug and aren't at risk of pulling out.
    Worst case, we stay with the individual pins solution and after inital testing just coat them all in a flexible epoxy, glue, or silicone to ensure they stay put.
    DENSO

  6. #6
    Top Dog west_coaster's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vitaly
    Quote Originally Posted by creator
    *The connector:
    We are activly searching to find this little bugger. The older F-12X's use two 22 pin connectors as well as one smaller one, while the R-12X's and newer F-12X's use just two 26 pin connectors. All of these connectors use a small flat blade terminal, but the male connectors on the harness are actually female terminals...
    So, untill we can find the actuall connector, we will be just using individual pins pushed directly into the connector. Suprisingly, they hold verry snug and aren't at risk of pulling out.
    Worst case, we stay with the individual pins solution and after inital testing just coat them all in a flexible epoxy, glue, or silicone to ensure they stay put.
    DENSO
    How about some help finding the connector?
    05 F-12X

    I'm on the drinking diet. I lost 2 days already.

  7. #7
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home vitaly's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    Quote Originally Posted by west_coaster
    Quote Originally Posted by vitaly
    Quote Originally Posted by creator
    *The connector:
    We are activly searching to find this little bugger. The older F-12X's use two 22 pin connectors as well as one smaller one, while the R-12X's and newer F-12X's use just two 26 pin connectors. All of these connectors use a small flat blade terminal, but the male connectors on the harness are actually female terminals...
    So, untill we can find the actuall connector, we will be just using individual pins pushed directly into the connector. Suprisingly, they hold verry snug and aren't at risk of pulling out.
    Worst case, we stay with the individual pins solution and after inital testing just coat them all in a flexible epoxy, glue, or silicone to ensure they stay put.
    DENSO
    How about some help finding the connector?
    Actually already tried...
    I'm pretty sure it's a DENSO connector, but was not able to find a distributor.

  8. #8
    Top Dog west_coaster's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    Yeah, I was looking at Denso and Deutsch. No joy yet.
    05 F-12X

    I'm on the drinking diet. I lost 2 days already.

  9. #9
    resident guru explorer4x4's Avatar
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    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    Post some pictures of the connector you are looking for.

    I know some hardcore Megasquirt guys at turbomustangs.com that could probably take care of the cam position timing issue. I believe I read that the AEM ECU has parameters for it too.
    Last edited by explorer4x4; 07-06-2007 at 06:24 PM.
    SUR #52, and B1 rider
    -RN Wammer, 84mm 5mil stroker, Rickters, some carbon
    -Square Nose, 62t/62t, b1 mod pipe, Rickters, RN pole
    -JS440-750, Twin carb, JRE adapter and coupler, 650 pipe
    -B1 Blaster, 760 64x/61x single carb frankenstein
    COMING SOON- Kawi 750 equipped RN, shortened hull, B1 mod pipe, some 46's, Rickters; my new surf boat.

  10. #10

    Re: Turbo Aquatrax ECU alternative thread

    We're looking for the ECU side connector to plug into the harness. pictured below for the R-12X and late model F-12X.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by creator; 07-06-2007 at 06:21 PM.
    Robert Stellhorn #811 -- Retired from Racing for the moment
    DJSA Staff Member
    '89 Yamaha SuperJet Square Nose, ready to put the hurt on anyone, anytime
    '02 Honda F-12X with more hours on it than i can count
    '03 Honda R-12X (most of it anyways) waiting in "mothball fleet" status

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