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  1. #11
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home yamaslut's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by riverratdad
    For the PWC's we own today this kind of legislation means death....and opens the door for other legislation and bans on the water.....and this is not good for the manufactures as they wait for the next bomb to hit their desk. Every state in the USA is working on some kind of restriction or ban on the water. If you care about PWC's on the water YOU should join AWA today if you are not a member already.....Dad www.awahq.org/

    really... If you are not am member, then shame on you

  2. #12
    Top Dog dcmomentum's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Good, I'm glad to see this. It's a few decades overdue.
    Second place is the first loser.

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  3. #13
    Top Dog TOR*P*DO's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by dcmomentum
    Good, I'm glad to see this. It's a few decades overdue.
    WRONG the big polluters are agriculture and industry.
    PWCs are not even a factor.
    Knee jerk move by politicians at EPA to appear to "be doing something"
    Get off the couch and Ride!!!!

  4. #14
    PWCToday Newbie threeriversjs440's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    I just joined the AWA about 10 minutes ago. The only voice we really have is via special interest groups such as the AWA. I have been waiting for boating to become the next target of the hyper aggressive global warming nut jobs. That is the only reason the politicians are attacking the marine industry. God help this country. We live in a time when our sheep like population buys into politically charged hoaxes such as global warming because of their emotional presentation (An Inconvienent Truth, "drowning" polar bears, melting glaicers, etc.) , and willingly give up our freedoms to the government bueracracy. The existence of bueracracies such as the EPA, is one of self perpetuation, they CREATE their own demand!!! Much like the IRS CREATES it's own demand by imposing unconstitutional income tax regulations in the first place!! This Global Warming hoax contrived by political pundnts and bueracrats on the left, is merely a tool for gaining more power, they are now able to put a choke hold on the marine industry via taxes and regulations to inflate the size of their budget. They have already done it to the auto industry. I am for clean air and water, I love nature. But when polititians erode our freedoms to perpetuate their existence in the name of nature, we need to stand up and fight back. Thanks,
    "no nation ever taxed itself into prosperity" -rl

  5. #15

    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by threeriversjs440
    I just joined the AWA about 10 minutes ago. The only voice we really have is via special interest groups such as the AWA. I have been waiting for boating to become the next target of the hyper aggressive global warming nut jobs. That is the only reason the politicians are attacking the marine industry. God help this country. We live in a time when our sheep like population buys into politically charged hoaxes such as global warming because of their emotional presentation (An Inconvienent Truth, "drowning" polar bears, melting glaicers, etc.) , and willingly give up our freedoms to the government bueracracy. The existence of bueracracies such as the EPA, is one of self perpetuation, they CREATE their own demand!!! Much like the IRS CREATES it's own demand by imposing unconstitutional income tax regulations in the first place!! This Global Warming hoax contrived by political pundnts and bueracrats on the left, is merely a tool for gaining more power, they are now able to put a choke hold on the marine industry via taxes and regulations to inflate the size of their budget. They have already done it to the auto industry. I am for clean air and water, I love nature. But when polititians erode our freedoms to perpetuate their existence in the name of nature, we need to stand up and fight back. Thanks,
    Thanks for standing up....we need more young men/women thinking the way you do about these issues.....If you are out at a race stop by and say hello to us....DAD

  6. #16
    Top Dog dcmomentum's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    What's a "global warming nut job"? Someone that has finally accepted that global warming is taking place? People aren't actually still debating that our earth is warming, are they?

    You better not go too far from shore, you'll fall off the edge. The earth is flat, politicians are just trying to trick us into believing that it's round.

    We also never landed on the moon, all of the pictures are doctored and fake. It's just another political conspiracy, duh.
    Last edited by dcmomentum; 04-20-2007 at 09:54 AM.
    Second place is the first loser.

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  7. #17
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home anthony_'s Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by WAPWC
    Quote Originally Posted by seadoodude
    I guess all this will make our pocket books hurt. is there a grandfather clause for existing craft or did i see somewhere that 2 cycles will be baned from some places like lake meade in 2008 or 10?
    I've heard there have been some bans on California lakes. But most of these regulations affect newly manufactured boats and skis and the engines inside. Cars and trucks are the same way... you don't have to retrofit a catalytic converter on grandpa's old truck. Existing equipment is OK for as long as you can keep it running. Except in some places in California, that is.
    by far the vast majority of lakes in california that allow recreational boating also allow 2 stroke skis. because the most well known lake (lake tahoe) in the state bans 2 strokes (not including direct inject), a lot of people think there are a lot more lakes in california where 2 strokes are banned. and it's not uncommon for pwc dealerships here to lie to people and say that 2 strokes are completely banned here in an effort to scare people from buying used 2 strokes.

    it's hard for me to believe that one day 2 strokes will ever be completely banned. clearly the day will come where manufactures will no longer be able to manufacture 2 strokes. heck, most of their lineups are 4 strokes already anyways. i wonder how long before yami and kawi comes out. but i can't see all existing 2 strokes being banned.

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  8. #18
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    because the most well known lake (lake tahoe) in the state bans 2 strokes (not including direct inject), a lot of people think there are a lot more lakes in california where 2 strokes are banned.
    That's why I said "some places in California". I've been told of at least two other lakes, can't remember the names right now, that have followed Tahoe's example. But I agree that the vast majority are still acting rationally.

    I doubt 2-strokes will be completely eliminated. It's difficult and expensive to build a 4-stroke engine with light enough weight, and sufficient power-to-weight ratio, to fit comfortably in a weedeater and many other small tools. But for anything above a couple of horsepower it's quite likely that "they" will try to mandate 4-strokes in newly manufactured equipment.

  9. #19
    Top Dog dcmomentum's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Agreed, I don't see them being banned. I'd be shocked if that happened, personally.
    Second place is the first loser.

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  10. #20
    PWCToday.com Is My Home Away From Home tshank123's Avatar
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    Re: EPA Signs Landmark Marine Engine ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by dcmomentum
    Agreed, I don't see them being banned. I'd be shocked if that happened, personally.
    They'll be banned by 2012 here at Lake Mead. Its a true fact.

    Originally Posted by National Park Service
    Comments related to the phase out of carbureted two-stroke engines:


    12. Some commenters cited the inefficiency of the carbureted two-stroke engines
    NPS Response: We are concerned about pollution in any form, and exhaust gasses
    from two stroke marine engines is no exception. We recognize that a certain amount of
    exhaust smoke and smell is inherent with any two-cycle engine and that the comments
    addressed excessive amounts from PWC. We acknowledge the findings of the
    Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) 1991 study that indicate two stroke engines
    lose roughly 25% of the fuel they consume unburned into the water, resulting in high
    levels of hydrocarbon emissions from these engines. The excessive smoke and smell
    from PWC could be attributed to unique operational characteristics of those vessels.
    PWC are often operated with throttle settings that transition from idle to full throttle and
    back to idle, typically in a rapid and repeated sequence. In response to these concerns,
    the rule will phase out the carbureted two-stroke engines over a ten-year period.

    13. There were comments that suggested the 2012 prohibition on carbureted two-stroke
    engines is unnecessary.
    NPS Response: As noted in alternative C in the draft and final EIS, two-stroke PWC
    and outboard vessels would be barred from Lake Mead NRA beginning in 2012 as a
    result of the prohibition on carbureted two-stroke engines. However, even with the
    increasing availability of new technology four-stroke and direct injection two-stroke
    engines, it is estimated by EPA that by 2012, they would only comprise approximately 50
    percent of PWC in use at that time.
    According to the Personal Watercraft Industry Association, PWC models on the
    market today include the new technology reduced-emissions vessels
    (http://www.pwia.org facts_release.htm#qa) and the two top selling models in 2002 were
    four stroke models. The NPS has also learned in discussion with local PWC retailers that
    the majority of new PWC purchases have been four-stroke engines. The industry shows
    this trend, combined with the relatively short operating life of PWC, which range from 5
    to 10 years (depending on the source), would result in only a small number of PWC users
    who would be displaced when the restrictions go into effect. The NPS hopes the industry
    prediction is correct. But if less than 100% of the PWCs in 2012 are the new technology
    reduced emission PWCs, then the PWC restriction will take effect and ensure that the
    resources of the park will be protected.
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