Where would the Sport be....

CHagest · 10-23-2005, 01:50 AM

If the Polaris Octane had a good hull (Handling was as good) like the SXR or hydrospace? I heard no one *****ing about the Octane killing the stock class, or that Victor winning all those years with such an advantage. ( not taking anything away from Vic, bro's the smoothest rider we all know)

So, the Octane turns like a SXR. What would the popular standup class be???? Stock?Why?Because everyone is happy with the stock speed, handling? Trick parts that come with it?

Would everyone go out and buy a $8000 ski to race stock class?

How many SXR's would sell in this day of age?

Now let me ask, what if the dollar and the Euro is 1 to 1. How many people would be complaining about the price of a Hydrospace at $9500? Can you buy a SXR and drop another $3000 into it and have what a S4 turbo offers? Would you like me to list?????

Isn't this what everyone wants? Yeah the cost is high ( with Euro to Dollar), but who's fault is that? Maybe they are the ones killing the stock class??????? Why can't the dollar be stronger than the Euro???

I also think that we are so use to buying a watercraft cheap and then having to put money into it, to be race ready. We sometimes forget about the total cost to race. Add all the oil and gas. Then you have a New company that has released something Made For Racing, Four stroke, and fast stock, trick parts. How many racers out there have a one year warrenty on there race motor? Think about it!

Chris

JC545f · 10-23-2005, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHagest

If the Polaris Octane had a good hull (Handling was as good) like the SXR or hydrospace? I heard no one *****ing about the Octane killing the stock class, or that Victor winning all those years with such an advantage. ( not taking anything away from Vic, bro's the smoothest rider we all know)

So, the Octane turns like a SXR. What would the popular standup class be???? Stock?Why?Because everyone is happy with the stock speed, handling? Trick parts that come with it?

Would everyone go out and buy a $8000 ski to race stock class?

How many SXR's would sell in this day of age?

Now let me ask, what if the dollar and the Euro is 1 to 1. How many people would be complaining about the price of a Hydrospace at $9500? Can you buy a SXR and drop another $3000 into it and have what a S4 turbo offers? Would you like me to list?????

Isn't this what everyone wants? Yeah the cost is high ( with Euro to Dollar), but who's fault is that? Maybe they are the ones killing the stock class??????? Why can't the dollar be stronger than the Euro???

I also think that we are so use to buying a watercraft cheap and then having to put money into it, to be race ready. We sometimes forget about the total cost to race. Add all the oil and gas. Then you have a New company that has released something Made For Racing, Four stroke, and fast stock, trick parts. How many racers out there have a one year warrenty on there race motor? Think about it!

Chris

Hey glad to hear your still alive Chris.

I think your right but there are other issues that I am aware of that have made teh Us market leary of buying the HS. The performance and technical issues aren't a negative when it comes to the HS, I think if we all had the means we'd have 2 each.

But I'll speak directely to the money issue. Your right, if the Euro to Dollar was 1:1, there would be a much more favorable situation. But there is nothing any of us can do about that.

The second issue is that by introducing a $12,000(USD) peice of hardware into the stock classes at regional levels, will turn a lot of people away. as it stands you can buy a SXR and race it with only a few dollars worth of things, and be competetive. Again, you are correct in pointing out teh Octane's capability. But you know as well as I do that get teh potential out of the octane it would take thousands of dollrs, and a lot of labor to get it there. If the octane was built to the way that we would like, it would easily have sold new for $10,000.

But by doubling the entry level cost for a "stock" ski poses the potential of shunning potential "budget" racers. Anf that's one of the issues.

If I was still racing you can bet I'd be sending you emails everyday trying to get a hook up. Becasue by putting the HS in stock class the SXR just became obsolete, spare a few people who seem to get more out of SXRs than the rest of us. now the European market is much different, in regards to teh fact that they pay an insane amount of money in dealer costs just to get an SXR, so the HS is a welcome product, with a fair price in that economy.

We all wish the economic conditions were different, becasue we want the HS, but as you well know the cost factor is a very major obsticle for recruiting (and retaining) riders in regional level races.

I wish I could offer a quick solution but we will either have to suffer the consequences of introducing a new layer of cost for competetive level racers, or find a way to keep the HS out of entry level classes (such as novice stock, or begginer stock).

Maybe HS could introduce a lower level machine(say no turbo, trim) that could be cheaper so people could get into them a bit cheaper, then add the optional equipment as they move up in classes.

CHagest · 10-23-2005, 03:26 AM

I guess everyone in the states is starting to understand how the Europeans have felt for years. They pay almost twice as much as we do, and now they don't have too with the Hydrospace. And look at their market, its as strong or stronger than in america. The Europeans are the one benefiting from this deal at the moment.

I know in the future the price will come down on the Hydrospace, but for now we are exclusive high end product. And we make the best available.

Times are changing, the sport needs it. It may not be easy for some, but it will be much better for others. Four strokes is our future.

Chris

JC545f · 10-23-2005, 04:30 AM

Yup, the Euros now have a financial advantage over us racers when it comes to buying this new model. 4 strokes are the future, also don't dismiss EFI 2strokes (for stand ups that is).

A happy medium will have to be found in order to get performace and the cost, somewhere where it can be an affordable sport. regardless of cost the HS is coming, and it will race. But how much can the market bear? I don't know if a fractured sport can handle a large increase in out of pocket expense. I know that if I was racing a limited class ski, I would be all over the HS, as it would be cheaper over a period of a year, and the regular maintenance would be a bit less. also I wouldn't have to spend a fortune getting it to the next level.

So what abou the HS runabout? Is that project still going, or is HS focusing on the stand up for now?

Prem1x · 10-23-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHagest

I heard no one *****ing about the Octane killing the stock class...

There was plenty of *****ing about the Octane. All the SJ owners *****ed to have pipes on in stock, and the SXR owners wound up with ignition mods allowed because of the Octane. Luckily, the Octane didn't handle worth a piss so at least the SXR's had a chance against it.

The (slight) parity in stock class made it popular.

All these what if's are meaningless. If HS is future for American ski racing, what is that future going to look like, and are you going to like it when you get there?

skidmark · 10-23-2005, 01:33 PM

Chris,

Don't take this wrong because I am know way bashing hydrospacde, it is a well engineered and designed racing boat.

Octanes were available to the general public and met the homo rules.

mile9c1 · 10-23-2005, 02:23 PM

Heck, you can probably still buy a brand new Octane

The biggest ***** seems that it might kill the stock class. This is a valid isssue, for anybody who's in it to win. Look how popular motocross racing is. You can buy a used motocross bike for under $2,000 and still be totally competitive racing at an amateur level. Now in jetski racing you'll get blow away even if you just bought a brand new $6,000 SX-R

That's not a good selling point for the sport.

This is America, our country is driven by debt, so I have no doubt that anybody who wants a Hydrospace can be able to afford it. All you need is a crappy job and you can finance it

I'm sure a lot of people have financed SX-R's.

Prem1x · 10-23-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mile9c1

...Look how popular motocross racing is. You can buy a used motocross bike for under $2,000 and still be totally competitive racing at an amateur level. Now in jetski racing you'll get blow away even if you just bought a brand new $6,000 SX-R

That's not a good selling point for the sport.

I don't know jack about motocross, but mike's point is the single biggest problem we've got in ski racing. The entry-level class just went to $12K+ just to try to win.

Looter · 10-24-2005, 03:34 AM

I think the entry level NASCAR cost is a lot too. If you want to race stock, and you think the only way you can win is with a HS, then buy one. If it is too much money, race what you have and enjoy yourself at the races and don't worry about winning all the time.

What kind of example are we setting for our kids to say that you can only race if you win? How about, go out and have fun and do the best that you can? You win some, you lose some...

T-Bone · 10-24-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looter

I think the entry level NASCAR cost is a lot too. If you want to race stock, and you think the only way you can win is with a HS, then buy one. If it is too much money, race what you have and enjoy yourself at the races and don't worry about winning all the time.

What kind of example are we setting for our kids to say that you can only race if you win? How about, go out and have fun and do the best that you can? You win some, you lose some...

entry level nascar is reasonable its called go-kart racing, or formula fords or legends....i can go on, car racing is relitvely inexpencive, you dont have to buy a ferrari to be competive in your class. ive raced dodge neons, 300 Z's and on and on. Even Motocycle road racing has a muliple of classes to get the entry level racer involved, mile9 is right MX at the local level can be enjoyed by a dude and a decent bike and a good rider is very competitve.

There are some answers that would make alot of people happy, but unforantly i dont think the IJSBA has any of them.