Code 25

THUNDERBIRD · 06-15-2009, 12:28 AM

Hey guys, newbie here.

Ive been trolling this forum for a while ever since before i got my 04 R12X. I wanted to start modding it during this coming off season (i didnt want any downtime during the season as i LOVE being on the water).

Well that plan got screwed. The ski ran GREAT everytime i took it out never with any problems. It has oil change about 30 hours ago, new plaugs about 30 hours ago as well and sea foam ran through about 30 hours ago. After that little tune up it ran like a champ. Well obviously something has come up.

2 weeks ago, dumped the ski in the river and off i went. My buddies were parking my truck and as i got closer to tell them to park in a spot i saw i kinda got shored up in a muddy area. My rear was stuck in the mud and i goosed it a little bit to get out. It didnt go so i goosed it a little harder, not much so i jumped out and manually freed it and off i went.

Well the whole day it didnt feel like it was pulling as hard however im aware it could have just been in my head as i dont have a bost guage at the moment. After a couple hours of riding and most a tank of gas BAM engine cuts to about 3k rpms max and has the crazy loud beep and blinking FI light. I did not know how to check for codes then.

I brought it out today after tightening down the batery and pulling the new plugs to make sure they all looked ok (which they did). I couldnt have been more than 50 feet away when it happened again. No boost, not punching it, just barely idling or slowly speeding up and it was very prompt. This time i knew how to pull the code and it is a 25 knock sensor code. Got it home and checked some things.

First thing, the ECU is under the dash not on the side and only had 2 large connectors and not the small one in the middle. The knock sensor looks tough to reach as i dont want to pull the intake if possible. From what i read on here and my experience with cars, the knock sensor is a rare item to fail. What are the odds i actually have a knock?

Any idea on what to do? I have about 188 hours on the ski now and it has been properly maintained. The waste gate moves and the turbo spins very freely. All fuses are fine.

Thanks in advance guys,
JT

C-LO · 06-15-2009, 10:31 AM

I am not suprised you are having problems, since you say how you get your ski that is "stuck" out of the mud...

I see people do this all the time and it flat out amazes me. I mean, dont people know that the ski SUCKS up water and circulates it around the engine, etc...?? Soooo if your sucking up mud, rocks, etc, expect beeps and FI lights...

If I was you, I would take it too the dealer, it probly needs to have the I/C cleaned out at the least...

THUNDERBIRD · 06-15-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-LO

I am not suprised you are having problems, since you say how you get your ski that is "stuck" out of the mud...

I see people do this all the time and it flat out amazes me. I mean, dont people know that the ski SUCKS up water and circulates it around the engine, etc...?? Soooo if your sucking up mud, rocks, etc, expect beeps and FI lights...

If I was you, I would take it too the dealer, it probly needs to have the I/C cleaned out at the least...

Look i know it wasnt smart to try and blip it out of there but no need to kick a man when hes down. I didnt realize how stuck i was sincei had only been in that spot maybe 3 or 4 seconds so thought it would pull right out. Why should I take it to the dealer? Is it that hard to clean an intercooler out? And i thought the intercooler cooled the air going into the intake for the motor, not the water intake which is what would be clogged.

In any event, would something like this cause a code 25? Maybe a twig or something around the impeller? Im fairly handy with a wrench on engines, but never tried my hand at a marine engine. Thats half the reason i liked this honda, its like a little turbo car motor...

dcg9381 · 06-15-2009, 12:01 PM

This should not cause a code "25"..
See my post here:
http://pwctoday.com/f18/03-f12x-pgm-...or-227344.html

If I were you, I'd flush the @#$@# out of it and run it on the hose.
Get it up above 3k RPM and hold it there for 30 seconds. If it sets the same code again - then you have an issue.
The procedure is largely:
1) Make sure KS is grounded to - test the side of the sensor against the block for continuity.
2) Make sure the KS pin has continuity to the ECU. Someone will have to tell you which pin to check, as I don't have the same model as you.
3) Replace KS with a known good one... I just put mine back up on ebay. It's about $95 or so from a discount dealer.
4) If it still errors, you have to replace the ECU. ECU prices range from below $300 to $700 depending on mode.

I have the "F" model - on my ski, the procedure to get to the sensor:
1) Remove the seats
2) Remove the left hand side side panel.
3) Disconnect the air temp sensor on the air box. Disconnect the wastgate actuator on the rear of the air box.
4) Remove the airbox screws. The cover will come off, you can leave it connected to the air box.
5) Remove the throttle body horns (6 screws each)
6) Remove the air box. (bolts behind the air horns)
7) Remove IC:
7a: Remove water inlet/outlet (2 hose clamps)
7b: Remove air inlet/outlet (2-4 hose clamps)
7c: Remove IC, single bolt, pull up and out.

THUNDERBIRD · 06-15-2009, 01:34 PM

dcg, thanks for the info. I have read through your thread a couple times along with just about every other thread that had the words "knock sensor" in them. When you say to flush it, do you mean flush the intercooler like the other guy said? I can pull the grate underneath it and see if i can find anything jammed up there.

I will check the KS with the best of my abilities and see what happens. On the trailer last night, i hooked it up to a hose with a pretty strong amount of pressure and ran it a little bit. The first time it coded in about 20 seconds or so, but tried it again and couldnt get it to code at all. Reved it up (not too much since it isnt under a load) for about 2 - 3 minutes and it sounded fine. I will try that again and see if i can get it to code again. Maybe the flush with the hose washed something out of there.

spatera · 06-15-2009, 02:14 PM

Are you resetting the ECU after you pull the code to clear it of past alerts.

THUNDERBIRD · 06-15-2009, 02:31 PM

I had the battery completely disconnected for about 15 minutes at one point between 2 codes. But i thought i read on here somewhere it didnt matter if you cleared them or not because it wont trip just because of the fact codes are stored. Am i wrong?

dcg9381 · 06-15-2009, 05:34 PM

You are correct. Shutting it down clears it of the immediate error condition. If you start back up and it's happening, then it's got a problem again.
I *suspect* that your knock issue is unrelated to the mud.

To flush - look at your owners manual. There is a nipple on the back of the ski, you connect a hose to your house water, start the motor, turn on the water (immediately). Flush.
To stop, turn off the water, then turn off the motor (immediately). Sounds like you've done this. If it's throwing KS codes on the flush, it's not knock..

Your water intake is in the pump area. It has a grate/filter looking thing on it - make sure it's clear.

Intercooler: The water path is a pretty straight shot, I was surprised. When you pull it see if you can see through it.
Cleaning the actual IC - which isn't related to your mud issue (as it's air charge) - I use a solvent and then SUCK it through the IC with a shop vac. If you put a solvent in there, it won't drain out.. so don't do it without the ability to pull it out.

I suspect the 25 code is unrelated to your mud issue.

THUNDERBIRD · 06-15-2009, 07:09 PM

I think it may be unrelated also. I find it hard to believe the ECU would just go out in the middle of the day. I will pull the grate after it cools down a little bit this evening.

I did flush start the motor. I dont know if the motor was on before water was put to it but i dont know if that matters much. Yea i didnt think anything with the mud would have to do with the intercooler, but i am a newb on these machines so ya never know. Also i looked under there and some fiberglass was scraped off, maybe someone hit a rock with it and pieces of that ran into the water intake.

These theories both rely on the hope that a clog in the intake or impeller could cause a code 25... maybe something is jammed and the impeller is hitting it causing the knock sensor to pick it up and think the motor is knocking? That may be a slight sretch though lol

ijdal35 · 06-15-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THUNDERBIRD

I did flush start the motor. I dont know if the motor was on before water was put to it but i dont know if that matters much.

FYI: Make sure the engine is running FIRST before you put the water on. You can flood the engine with water if the motor is not already running. Also, don't let the engine run more than 15 seconds without the water on. For peace of mind, check the condition of your oil, if it is milky you have water in it.