DLNR Alert!

mr1320 · 02-09-2009, 03:07 AM

Just thought I'd throw this out there. DLNR has 6 new FX Cruisers on Oahu. 2 more at each county. That makes 12 total. I talked to one of the officers while he was washing down. It seems that there is a central pool of 6 ski's and they sign out for them when they want to do ocean patrols. Today, they had two ski's (both silver) and went from sand island to yokohama and back. He said that it is good for them because they can get closer to shore in shallow water to catch illegal fishing/diving and cite jetski's out of there area.

So it seems that DLNR will be on the water more often and in areas that they would not normally go with a boat. Also, you cannot spot the DLNR officer until it is just a few yards from you (the POLICE sticker is only about 4" tall and it is in black). I DLNR felt that patroling from the shore just aint cutting it.

One of the guys in our group also talked to another DLNR officer and he stated that the PWC class that the state is mandating is not being enforced right now because there are too few classes for the number of riders out there. So at least DLNR is aware of this and they'll cut us some slack on it. The one time that I got a warning from DLNR, they never asked for the cert.

So this brings up the question of double standard. Why is it safe and legal for DLNR officers to ride almost anywhere and we cannot?

So this info does not apply to the law abiding citizen who rides only in the designated thrillcraft area. Only those who choose to push the limit of the law.

SpearoPaul · 02-09-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr1320

So this info does not apply to the law abiding citizen who rides only in the designated thrillcraft area. Only those who choose to push the limit of the law.

Yikes! That's BAD news for me. I'm a middle school science teacher and a law-abiding citizen with no less than THREE PWC courses/certificates under my belt (and carried on my life jacket), but the restrictions placed on PWCs are absurd, so I generally do not follow them if I know I will have a much better or safer dive somewhere else outside of a designated riding zone. I do however avoid high-public areas like Waikiki, avoid buzzing by people in the water or near beach front houses. Looks like I'm probably going to start picking up some citations soon unless the DLNR guys are reasonable and not hard asses.

I did attend a public DLNR meeting (fishing based) on Thursday evening and voiced my concern about this and made them write down on their big sheet of public suggestions that "PWC restrictions needs to be eased".

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr1320

So this brings up the question of double standard. Why is it safe and legal for DLNR officers to ride almost anywhere and we cannot?

I somewhat agree, but they are under the guise of enforcing the laws and looking for law breakers so I don't have a gripe with where they can ride. My gripe is with how restricted we are as the public. How about boats? Certain riding areas are currently closed because of whale season. But boats are still free to come and go as they please.

Which has propellers that damage/maim whales - PWCs or boats? BOATS! While trolling nearly half a mile outside of Hanauma Bay yesterday afternoon, I saw a boat nearly run over a whale trying to follow it. Boat was as close as 20' to the whale. I was a full block away.

Which pollute more these days? BOATS! How many two-stroke boat engines are still out there compared to two-stroke PWCs? How much gas/oil do they use compared to a PWC?

Which do more reef damage when running aground? BOATS! Heavier, deeper water draw, and propellers.

Which has caused more deaths? BOATS! (I can't find actual stats for this, but this is something I am 99 percent positive about) More drinking, heavier, less visibility from the wheel/tiller an attitude that they are not vulnerable so probably not paying as much attention. I was PWC diving off of Kahala "illegaly" since I was not in a legal riding zone 2 weeks ago in about 90' of water. I had a 40 pound ono in my sights and was waving it in from behind (they like to think you're not watching them, and they do not like to see spearguns). I was about 20' underwater when a25'+ twin-engine boat ran right OVER me. I had a dive float with a legal 14 inch dive flag on it on the surface above attached to my gun, and just to the downwind (which is why it did not get hit and damaged or tangled into the prop). My PWC was about 200 feet away, and it was also displaying a legal dive flag.

Which do not require any formal training, safety training and a certificate to operate in the state of Hawaii? BOATS! Any joker can buy one and ride straight out to sea, or right into the shallow waters of Waikiki dodging between surfers and stand up paddlers, but we can't do that even with training and certification.

So why the hell are we restricted but boats are not? I also discussed and educated the people at this meeting about these points. They said they would take it under consideration (read, nothing will probably happen).

I could understand imposing restrictions 15 years ago when any tourist could rent a beat up, and probably a mistreated 2-stroke PWC and go riding full throttle into the open ocean or right into dry reef. Now rentals are very restricted (riding around in circles in a very small zone only), and PWC users today are Hawaii State certified/trained, or at least are supposed to be. We have laws about how far out we can ride, and laws about how close to a fringing reef we can ride. We have laws about how close we can be to sea turtles, whales and dolphins. I really do not think we need designated riding zones at all if everybody out there on PWCs were educated and certified.

I will continue to be vocal and complain to the DLNR about this until it's resolved. I hope I can get more of you guys involved. However, you guys REALLY need to take the required course to get certified and legal if you haven't already. March 7-8 is the next class.

OAHU, March 7-8, 2009, Saturday & Sunday, 8:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., Course code: K01PD202, call 808-235-7433 to register. Location: Windward Community College, Hale Kuhina 115; limited enrollment.

Thanks for listening.

*steps off his soap box*

-Paul

SpearoPaul · 02-09-2009, 04:59 AM

I'm also going to ask somebody I know at the DLNR who has dealt with my questions more than once about PWCs to swing by this board and sign up. If he does sign up, he will be able to bring in DLNR's perspective, happenings, news as well as help us figure out/answer specific regulation type of questions. This would be very useful for the Hawaii PWC community I believe.

-Paul

'Crockett · 02-09-2009, 10:08 AM

This is just an opinion so please take it as just that . . . . .

Please do not post comments on this forum about how you intentionally disregard the boating laws in your area, it's not good practice, it sets a bad example for others and it makes all PWC owners in general look less responsible.

I don't doubt the laws in your area are rediculus and possibly even overtunable in time, but for now the law is the law. If you choose to not abide by them that is your choice but again please do not come on here and make posts about how you intentionally disregard your local rules.

This is a public Forum that can be (and has been) accessed by those who seek to destroy our hobby and take away our rights. I don't think inviting DLNR people here will be productive at all, especially not after you have already admitted to disregarding the very rules they enforce.

Remember: Anything you say here, CAN and WILL be used against all of us in further attempts to close down riding areas.

Please . . . . . Ride and Post responsibly . . . . . . . . .

Thanks !

SpearoPaul · 02-09-2009, 01:50 PM

Good point Crockett.

I guess what I'm trying to drive at by posting my "illegal" pwc adventures is that nobody died, a whale did not explode, and we don't have an Exxon Valdez event happening at our beaches. A million-dollar Search and Rescue mission did not need to be deployed, and the reef did not crack off and sink into the depths. That's what the Hawaiian public seems to think will happen should a PWC touch the water.

I see PWC operators outside of designated riding areas on a nearly daily basis.

The riding restrictions needs to be eased up considerably. I did learn one interesting thing - If somebody fights a citation in court, the DLNR officer has to show up for court which is a real waste of their resources/time. I'd rather that they be out there targeting trepassers and illegal fishing/hunting activities. If I do get cited for diving, or traveling outside of a designated riding zone I will drag it out in court. I know I'll lose, but if it gets annoying enough for the DLNR, they may be more quick to reconsider these riding restrictions or to look the other way when I go by. I'm not spoiling for a fight, I will try to talk my way out of a citation should I get pulled over. I will be polite and respectful as they write me a ticket if they decide to. My beef is not with the DLNR guys. They're heros - they have tough jobs. It's these laws.

It is my perspective that these laws are outdated, and violating these are not real dangers to society or harmful to wildflife/environment. Unless anybody has any better ideas on how to legally access safe, quality diving sites for spearfishing, that's what I'm probably going to keep doing.

I did ask about getting "special permits" to access two well-known dive sites that are a ways offshore, but was told, "No." Boats go there all the time. I've paddled out there on my surfboard with dive gear, but that's just not safe and I don't ever want to do that again. DLNR tells me that's what I need to keep doing if I want to dive there, or to buy a boat.

-Paul

mr1320 · 02-09-2009, 03:32 PM

Actually, I think that the laws are to protect other users of the ocean and the environment. You would not want watercraft in Waikiki near all of the swimmers, surfers, and DIVERS. Or ripping at 60 MPH past those commercial para-glyders.

The way some people ride also contributes to concerns of DLNR. I've see it many times, guys ripping at full clip 100 feet from shore. Pisses me off too.

If everyone can do their part and ride responsibly, maybe we can convince DLNR that watercraft are safe for the environment and other users of the ocean. Then maybe they'll reduce some of the restrictions.

Just a thought.

hilomikey · 02-10-2009, 01:56 PM

Whew, lots of information, however, In Hilo, our DLNR officers came ripping up alongside me on their new 09 FXHO's (grey) and I just started to chuckle, I hit the throttle and was way gone from him. Of course well within the "thrillcraft zone". Lets face it, we know we are discriminated by the laws we have here, Lets look at the past, one guy drowns off Moanalua in 02, not wearing a life jacket. Um in Hilo, one dummy hit a six man canoe with his stand up in 99, Don't get me wrong, I have a good working relationship with the DLNR, I have chased down boats and jetski's for them when they were under strict rules from our glorious Govenor Lingle to only use boats in real emergencies just 2 years ago. Then we had the Ferry thing in Kauai, and all boats were shipped there to help patrol the harbor, No Ferry in Kauai???? And this is the best part, Now we don't have money due to economy reccesion???? Talk about goverment waste? Now getting back on topic, if we ride responsibly and work with DLNR, they will not always choose to cite us. Been there, done that. I will state again, when DLNR see's my Ultra hitting the water, they know for a fact that I will follow the rules and also help others who are not too informed about riding areas. The DLNR is there to protect our right to ride and enjoy the ocean. I wiil also mention here that once while riding in Hilo bay, this Sailboat from Maui came and anchored right in the thrillcraft zone. well we were up at about 6:30 am and riding, doing speed and handling checks on boat we just modified the night before. Well this "Yachtsman" started to shake his fist at us and promptly radioed in that we were causing a rucus! Our DLNR officers were out in force just about an hour later and cited him for anchoring in a thrillcraft zone as he started to make a big scene about "its not on the chart" "you'll hear from my lawyers"!!! Then they came up to me and said, Mike could you take off your water box and ride right by them! Well never seen that Yacht in our bay again, nor heard the end to that story. My take on this is to get to know your DLNR officers and you will find out that they are not on some power trip or out to make life for us miserable. They are just doing their job and keeping our waters safe. Hope others here get the message. Just do what is right, and when they come to see you, defensiveness is a tell tale sign of guilt!. Hope this helps people understand the real purpose of these water police!

Mike

mr1320 · 03-11-2009, 06:47 PM

FYI. Posted on Honolulu Advertiser website

Quote:

Department of Land and Natural Resources personnel will be at the Aloha Stadium Swap Meet on Saturday as part of a public information outreach program, the state said today in a news release.

DLNR representatives will be in Row 4-C, stalls 6 and 8, from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m.

Personnel from the aquatic resources, boating and ocean recreation, conservation and resources enforcement, historic preservation, conservation and coastal lands, forestry and wildlife and state parks divisions will be on hand to share information and answer questions about the departments' wide range of programs and partnerships to manage the state's natural and cultural resources.

Various exhibits and displays will also be set up.

Boaters can get live assistance in re-registering their vessels using the Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation on-line vessel registration system.

Lay net fishermen are also invited to register their lay nets between 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. at the Division of Aquatic Resources table.